Post by schlager7 on Jun 5, 2007 15:01:00 GMT -6
(With thanks to kd5mdk for bringing our attention to these points on Fencing Net.)
Below is a proposal to the FIE from the French Fencing Federation:
============================================
A DEFINITION OF THE GUARD IN THE FIE RULES FOR COMPETITIONS
I – Reasons that justify the inclusion of a definition of the guard in the FIE Rules for competitions :
The FIE Rules for competitions does not define the guard, because it is not a fencing treaty. Nevertheless, it is often referred to it : it therefore implies that to know what the rules mean by « guard », the fencers consulted a fencing treaty.
But the purpose of a treaty is not that of the rules. The treaty considers technical gestures in the perspective of a better efficiency of the fencer, the rules are established to guarantee
equity in the competition.
The treaty advises, the rules oblige.
So, the following definition, found in a treaty, recommends a certain position which will be then described :
« The guard is a balanced position, specific to each fencer, allowing him to be ready to execute at any time, and in a time as brief as possible, all the actions and movements necessary to execute the assault of fencing ».
(M.R.CLERY-Que sais-je n° 1490 – P.U.F 1973)
The rules should add a complement to this definition, which would consider the interest of the opposite fencer to the one who applies the definition above, and naturally, the one of the
fencer itself.
The assault brings together two conflicting interests: the one of the attacker and that of the defender. The rules has to guarantee both.
For example, if the A fencer respects the definition of Master Cléry, he may have in front of him an opponent who adopts a posture in such a way that the targets are extremely reduced,
that the choice of an impact point to make a hit becomes problematic and sometimes even impossible.
Moreover, the rules self-express its deficiencies, when it requests fencers to be on guard « correctly » (t.17) or when it evokes abnormal movements or positions ( t.22-t.49-t.87 ): but correct or abnormal with regard to what?
The definition of the guard would be a positive contribution to the rules for competitions, because it would contribute to an application of the convention, which is better supervised.
By limiting the number of faults of combat, thanks to an accurate written standard, the assault would win in brightness.
This definition would allow to limit the abuses and fix the minimal requirements of this fundamental position of the activity. It should, in the same way as the definition of the attack,
be one of the criteria of judgement, in particular at conventional weapons.
II – Inclusion of the definition of the guard in the rules for competitions :
1) Where to insert it :
In the second part : Foil – the conventions of fencing (it would be good to examine if the same procedure would fit at sabre), which would be subdivided as follows :
• Method of making a hit,
• Valid targets,
• The guard,
• Judging of hits.
2) Definition :
The guard is the initial position, taken by the foil fencer at the beginning of a match or assault and at each time, after an interruption, that the bout has to be resumed. It has to be such, that the fencers cannot, in any circumstances, withdraw the valid surfaces from the offensive or against the opposite offensive by covering them.
3) Criteria of judgement :
• The fencer on guard must have a well-balanced attitude. He has to adopt a posture " in the amble ", with the chest vertical (shoulders at the same height, on the same horizontal line
and situated as much as possible in the axis of the piste).
• The non-sword arm, without contact with the chest, cannot be used to cover or protect the valid surfaces.
• The sword arm holds the weapon, in compliance with article t.16 (chapter 5). The guard cannot be taken with the arm stretched out. (pointe in line t.10).
• The fencer can take his guard in the fencing position he wishes (in quarte, sixte, octave, septime or other).
• The ducking is a movement which allows to avoid a hit given by an offensive or counteroffensive action. The execution of a ducking movement leads to the abandon of the on guard position.
• If the ducking is incomplete, it is authorized ( t.21 ).
• If it is incomplete, the related non-valid hit, must be considered as valid, in favour of the fencer who executed the attack or counter-attack ( t.49 ).
• If there is no hit, both fencers must take back the on guard.
• The positions or abnormal movements, stipulated in paragraphs t.22-t.49-t.89 are evaluated with regard to the definition of the guard.
Will be penalised : the flexing of the head, chest, the contortions, which allow the protection with the arms and jumps (yellow card).
• Generally, all the positions and actions, which lead to lose the balance must be penalised if they are voluntary, and corrected, if they are not intentional.
Below is a proposal to the FIE from the French Fencing Federation:
============================================
A DEFINITION OF THE GUARD IN THE FIE RULES FOR COMPETITIONS
I – Reasons that justify the inclusion of a definition of the guard in the FIE Rules for competitions :
The FIE Rules for competitions does not define the guard, because it is not a fencing treaty. Nevertheless, it is often referred to it : it therefore implies that to know what the rules mean by « guard », the fencers consulted a fencing treaty.
But the purpose of a treaty is not that of the rules. The treaty considers technical gestures in the perspective of a better efficiency of the fencer, the rules are established to guarantee
equity in the competition.
The treaty advises, the rules oblige.
So, the following definition, found in a treaty, recommends a certain position which will be then described :
« The guard is a balanced position, specific to each fencer, allowing him to be ready to execute at any time, and in a time as brief as possible, all the actions and movements necessary to execute the assault of fencing ».
(M.R.CLERY-Que sais-je n° 1490 – P.U.F 1973)
The rules should add a complement to this definition, which would consider the interest of the opposite fencer to the one who applies the definition above, and naturally, the one of the
fencer itself.
The assault brings together two conflicting interests: the one of the attacker and that of the defender. The rules has to guarantee both.
For example, if the A fencer respects the definition of Master Cléry, he may have in front of him an opponent who adopts a posture in such a way that the targets are extremely reduced,
that the choice of an impact point to make a hit becomes problematic and sometimes even impossible.
Moreover, the rules self-express its deficiencies, when it requests fencers to be on guard « correctly » (t.17) or when it evokes abnormal movements or positions ( t.22-t.49-t.87 ): but correct or abnormal with regard to what?
The definition of the guard would be a positive contribution to the rules for competitions, because it would contribute to an application of the convention, which is better supervised.
By limiting the number of faults of combat, thanks to an accurate written standard, the assault would win in brightness.
This definition would allow to limit the abuses and fix the minimal requirements of this fundamental position of the activity. It should, in the same way as the definition of the attack,
be one of the criteria of judgement, in particular at conventional weapons.
II – Inclusion of the definition of the guard in the rules for competitions :
1) Where to insert it :
In the second part : Foil – the conventions of fencing (it would be good to examine if the same procedure would fit at sabre), which would be subdivided as follows :
• Method of making a hit,
• Valid targets,
• The guard,
• Judging of hits.
2) Definition :
The guard is the initial position, taken by the foil fencer at the beginning of a match or assault and at each time, after an interruption, that the bout has to be resumed. It has to be such, that the fencers cannot, in any circumstances, withdraw the valid surfaces from the offensive or against the opposite offensive by covering them.
3) Criteria of judgement :
• The fencer on guard must have a well-balanced attitude. He has to adopt a posture " in the amble ", with the chest vertical (shoulders at the same height, on the same horizontal line
and situated as much as possible in the axis of the piste).
• The non-sword arm, without contact with the chest, cannot be used to cover or protect the valid surfaces.
• The sword arm holds the weapon, in compliance with article t.16 (chapter 5). The guard cannot be taken with the arm stretched out. (pointe in line t.10).
• The fencer can take his guard in the fencing position he wishes (in quarte, sixte, octave, septime or other).
• The ducking is a movement which allows to avoid a hit given by an offensive or counteroffensive action. The execution of a ducking movement leads to the abandon of the on guard position.
• If the ducking is incomplete, it is authorized ( t.21 ).
• If it is incomplete, the related non-valid hit, must be considered as valid, in favour of the fencer who executed the attack or counter-attack ( t.49 ).
• If there is no hit, both fencers must take back the on guard.
• The positions or abnormal movements, stipulated in paragraphs t.22-t.49-t.89 are evaluated with regard to the definition of the guard.
Will be penalised : the flexing of the head, chest, the contortions, which allow the protection with the arms and jumps (yellow card).
• Generally, all the positions and actions, which lead to lose the balance must be penalised if they are voluntary, and corrected, if they are not intentional.