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Post by schlager7 on Mar 13, 2007 22:50:05 GMT -6
In an unrelated thread, Augie made this observation on the recent SSCC held in the Gulf Coast Division. We even survived the oversight of the local division over the Sectional Tournament. It is a fair position. I have heard it taken by some and disputed by others. I, for one, was a little curious. It comes down to this question: Ultimately, is an SSCC a sectional tournament (and thus, the SW Section would be responsible for seeing to it that everything was done correctly) or is it a divisional event (making the Gulf Coast Division the responsible agency)? Most sections in the USFA seem to do little more than sponsor the annual sectional qualifiers for juniors and Div 1-A to the summer nationals. Basically they exist to put on a single tournament each year. In the Southwest Section we are fortunate (I know some who feel otherwise, but I think we are lucky) that at some point in the recent past the SW Section and a goodly part of the member divisions created our sectional circuit. One or two other sections do this, as well, but it is still the exception in the USFA not the rule. There is a bit of barely charted ground here. The only source I could find to give a ruling on the matter comes from the SSCC Ops Manual... at least, the one currently available on line. To quote: III.H) Neither the Section Officers or the SSCC Commissioner is responsible for the smooth and efficient operation of any SSCC event. The primary responsibility at all SSCC events is with the Local Organizing Committee and the Designating Division.
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Post by fox on Mar 14, 2007 6:27:28 GMT -6
I wondered about how the Southwest Circuit was organized. There were several different attempts to do something similar in the SE Section in the old days that never quite gelled.
I always thought in some cases it was a matter of who gets/gives up control of such tournaments (divisions vs section).
I can see where the individual SW circuit tournaments might get that, "neither fish nor fowl" quality.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Mar 14, 2007 8:13:08 GMT -6
Let me preface this with I have no idea what happened at the tournament. And now my answer....
It's a divisional event. The section only hosts the qualifier.
Now those who run the circuit are entitled to choose where and under what circumstances they have events. They are also entitled to negotiate the amount of control they have over their events. Bottom line though, the division is responsible for any tournament within its bounds and has to exercise oversight of them.
Dan
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Post by DavidSierra on Mar 14, 2007 8:49:49 GMT -6
This is an extremely tricky ground, as there are numerous things at play here. Please also note that the SSCC will be moving to a new administrative/organizational modus operandi next season, thanks to the new charter that has been voted in by the EC and ratified by 5 divisions. More on this soon.
BUT, the way I have always proceeded with this issue is that the SSCC (which is an organization that is overseen by, but is not the same as the SWS), sets a number of guidelines for events that have been designated to follow. For the most part, these are designed to ensure a certain amount of uniformity between the results of events, things like seeding standards, referee, armoury and bout committee standards, events to be held, and the like.The SSCC also reserves the right to remove SSCC designation from an event, should the preparations therefor not be within a basic set of guidelines. There is discussion about weather there is too much or too little oversight from the SSCC in regards to all this. Additionally, I as the Commissioner have always been available to act as a consultant, and will offer advice on how many strips you might need, where to find referees, how large your venue should be, how you should set your schedule, how to conduct on-line registration, etc. That is part of my job, but in that respect, they are suggestions only, and not "pronouncements from on high."
However, the Division is the entity ultimately responsible for the certification of the tournament. They give sanction (used in this case to mean certification) of the event to the USFA and certify any ratings that may be awarded. It is the official position of the USFA that a Division may impose requirements and standards upon an event for this purpose. This often includes, depending upon the division we're talking about, publicity and notification standards, referee ranking standards, venue and phyisical standards (certifiction of proper strip length, minimum distance between strips standards, things of that nature), bout committee usage, and other matters. As it is currently organized, the SSCC has NO control, input or any other voice in these matters, because the SSCC cannot sanction to the USFA any tournament results. So long as the minimum standards the SSCC lays down are met, the SSCC cannot and will not interfere.
Two caviats of note: One, I'm not going to jump into some inter-divisional fray here. I've merely supplied the answers that were asked for, and I am not responsible for anything taken out of context in the above post. There were good things and bad things that happend at the Gulf Coast SSCC event, and I'm not going to get into a discussion of specifics in a public forum.
Two, as mentioned above the SSCC will be operating next season under a new charter. Look for things to change.
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Post by schlager7 on Mar 14, 2007 10:56:41 GMT -6
Interesting. Given what you just wrote, would the section then be the USFA sanctioning agent of the sectional qualifiers or would that, too, default to the division in which it held in a given year?
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Post by DavidSierra on Mar 14, 2007 13:01:50 GMT -6
The Section is the USFA Sanctioning Agent for Sectional Championships. Which around here, consists of the DivIA and U19 qualifiers for Summer Nationals.
However, you've just made me think about something...
It should be noted that the game is a little different for other Sections. Several offer U-16, Y-14 and Team Sectional Championships as well. And these are distinct and different than the Divisional Qualifiying events. They don't qualify anyone for anything. But, they are held, either as part of, or in some cases, seperately from the same tournament with the DivIA and U19 events. Which if you think about it, raises an interesting point, because, possibly those Sections are granting official USFA Sanction to events that are NOT the two allowed qualifiers. Then again, the official sanction may be coming from the Division in which they are hosted. I don't know.
But, if its the former, then its possible a re-write of the Section Bylaws could allow the >Section< to sanction events other than the DivIA and U19 championships. Which could be rather interesting...
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Post by schlager7 on Mar 14, 2007 13:39:15 GMT -6
Then, conceivably, if the proper paperwork was done a section might then become the sanctioning agent for a sectional tournament circuit.
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Post by DavidSierra on Mar 14, 2007 20:31:42 GMT -6
POSSIBLY.... This is highly dependant though on an interpretation of sanctioning ability that is decidedly "non-standard" because of a potential loophole that currently exists. And I can quite easily see the fix that the USFA would come up with would be to close the loophole, instead of recognizing its potental ability.
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Post by schlager7 on Mar 14, 2007 21:38:37 GMT -6
And I can quite easily see the fix that the USFA would come up with would be to close the loophole, instead of recognizing its potental ability. It is their way.
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