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Post by schlager7 on May 5, 2006 8:24:21 GMT -6
From the 4 Winds Joust Thread, Sir Stefan von Ziegler wrote:
and
I, for one, would be curious as to who will be competing and how many have competed previously. It is not as though there are just dozens of competitive jousting tournaments out there at this time.
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on May 7, 2006 20:41:42 GMT -6
I'll see if I can't dredge up an RSVP list of some sort, but I'm fairly certain about the knights from the four winds joust (6), and two other joust troupes have expressed intent, the Knights of Van, and the Emory knights. Other than that, there may be a few newbies getting their start there... such as I did last year : )
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jun 21, 2006 11:28:35 GMT -6
Next weekend, July 1st & 2nd, the Rendependence Joust at the Four Winds Faire! There will be food and vendors and Tournaments for most of both days. Grand Prizes will be awarded at the end for three events: Heavy Joust, Light Joust, Games.
Don't forget!
---> Z
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Post by schlager7 on Jun 21, 2006 11:40:13 GMT -6
I can guess on "Games," but what is the difference in "Heavy" and "Light" jousts?
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jun 21, 2006 21:07:20 GMT -6
Glad you asked!
Light joust is primarily when the target is your opponents shield. The blows most often hit the shield and slide off to the outside. As such, the armor requirements are more lienient for the event: Breastplate, Helmet, Shield. The rest is optional, but highly recommended. (I wouldn't joust in anything but full plate, I've seen one too many stray shots)
Heavy Joust, also called Grandguard jousting, is when your target is your opponent's torso, or more appropriately, a piece of armor attached to the left shoulder/left torso area called a grandguard. There are no shields in this event, and as such the likelihood of unhorsing an opponent or breaking a lance is much higher since there is no free-moving shield to absorb and deflect the blow. Reserved only for the hardcore and the crazy.
These two terms are a loose conglomeration of historical rules that have been simplified for modern use. Spanish, English, Italian, German, etc... all had their own specific rules back in the day.
As you said, games are self explanatory, as mentioned in the four winds joust thread: Rings, Quintain, Spear, and Saracens Head. There will also be an additional tiebreaker event called 'the gauntlet' whereing the competetors run the events in quick succession, and points are awarded for score as well as time.
---> Z
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Post by Aldo N on Jun 27, 2006 18:17:50 GMT -6
As to the Ren-Dependence Joust at 4 Winds, I saw this on another site:
There will be an open Joust, archery and knife and Axe competitions
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Post by kd5mdk on Jun 27, 2006 21:53:28 GMT -6
What kind of Axe competitions? Fighting or displays of axmanship, like you'd see at a county fair in lumber country?
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Post by fox on Jun 29, 2006 6:24:53 GMT -6
What kind of Axe competitions? Fighting or displays of axmanship, like you'd see at a county fair in lumber country? My guess is a kind of axe-throwing competition. Funny, it makes me recall an old Errol Flynn color flick where he played Edward the Black Prince. They made much in that film of his character's axe-throwing skills (subbed by a skilled double, I'm sure). I can't recall the film. I haven't seen it in years.
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jul 3, 2006 10:14:22 GMT -6
Axe throwing my good man.
And knives as well.
I don't know the results of the beforementioned competitions, but as for the joust, it was...with no great suprise...as follows.
Light Tilt:
1st - Sir Roland (Dusty Martel) [$100] 2nd - Sir Lothar (Johnathan ?) [$50]
Games:
1st - Sir Roland (Dusty Martel) [$100] 2nd - Lady Isabella (Bobbie Patterson) [$50]
There was no heavy tilt, for lack of entries.
There is talk of another tournament in the fall... stay tuned for more.
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Jul 7, 2006 10:33:17 GMT -6
I don't suppose there are any mpg or avi or wmv files posted up somewhere, are there?
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jul 7, 2006 22:21:52 GMT -6
Not that I know of, but there were cameras running... I'll see if I can find anything and post a link here if I do.
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Sometimes it rains on the just, sometimes it rains on the unjust...and sometimes it just rains[ss:Bl
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jul 17, 2006 20:27:40 GMT -6
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Post by thecarpinator on Jul 17, 2006 22:27:16 GMT -6
Amazing video!
Also, I thought fencing was expensive, what does jousting cost? I can't imagine a horse and all that armor is cheap.
Great stuff! I had my bets on Sir Roland the whole way!
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Post by schlager7 on Jul 18, 2006 9:15:28 GMT -6
This last spring, Maupin and I went to the Four Winds Fair for the first time. We really were taken by the competitions on horseback. Just the complexity and the actions and the practice that must have been required to get anywhere near just "good" in these events speaks to the competitors love of the game. We fencers should relate to that. We don't fence for the adorning fans or the high-paying endorsements! In fact, when she and I attended the jousts at Four Winds, some remarks from the competitors to the judges did make me recall a few fencing bouts I have refereed... Seriously, see it in person sometime. Just knowing they are actually competing against each other and watching each run makes for some darned good entertainment.
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Sir Stefan Von Ziegler
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Sometimes it rains on the just, sometimes it rains on the unjust...and sometimes it just rains[ss:Bl
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Post by Sir Stefan Von Ziegler on Jul 18, 2006 11:46:19 GMT -6
What does jousting cost?
Well, generally speaking, your first year, you just compete in the games, which doesn't require armor or a shield, so that is a considerable load off. A good horse, depending on how picky you are, will range from 1000 to more than 10,000, unless you know someone or can swing a deal. The pinch there is the upkeep. If you have your own land, excellent, you just need to worry about food, vet, and farrier for the most part. If not, then your best bet is boarding the horse somewhere. A farm will usually take care of all the nessecities, and may throw in training as well. Such a place will usually run you between 100 to 1000 a month, depending on the services provided.
Unless you plan to ride bareback with no reins, you'll need some tack. Most any saddle will do for gaming, and a nice basic one will be about 200 - 900 or so. A jousting saddle with a high close seat and a plate across the pommel will run you around 1000 - 2000 or so. Bridles, bits, breast collars, cinches, reins, and all that good miscellaneous stuff will weigh in at about 100 to 1000, depending on how fancy you want to get.
Once you can nail at least 3 out of 4 rings on a regular basis, and can take as well as give it to the quintain, you're ready to tilt, and for that you'll need armor. The requirements vary from organization to organization, but for the most part it goes as follows:
Light Tilt:
Shield, Enclosed Helmet, Breastplate
Heavy Tilt:
Grandguard, Breastplate w/ pauldrons, Full Arms, Enclosed Helmet, Gorget
These are just requirements, mind you. I recommend as much as you can stand to cover up if someone is riding at you with a solid lance... but that's just me.
Bare minimum can run you from ~300 to more than 1,000, and a full suit will run ~1000 to more than 10,000, depending on the quality and who makes it.
The lances we use are little more than 1 5/8 roundstock. A nice 10 foot section runs about 20$ give or take a few. (Its a great feeling to break a lance, but 20 dollars does sting a little bit afterwards)
Now all of that said... you certainly don't need to get it all at once, and 9 times out of 10, there is someone more than willing to let you use something of theirs. This is just a cold turkey estimate for someone who wanted to go it all alone. (which I don't recommend) I'm still gradually replacing borrowed stuff with my own things.
As for the training that goes into it:
First and foremost, horsemanship. You must have a working knowledge of horses and how to ride them. A laymans knowledge of training wouldn't hurt either. One thing that many people don't realize is that horses kinda work on a different timeframe than we do. Whatever they do usually is a long process. If you introduce something new, it can take them weeks before they accept it. As such, getting a horse used to screaming people, flags, armor, speakers, lances, and all that other 'weird' stuff can take as long as a year, maybe two. Second, when you're all armored up for the tilt, you can really see or speak audibly, and your hands are full except for a few fingers on your shield arm if you can spare them. This means that a well-trained horse that knows exactly what's going on and what it needs to do is more valuable than gold. It may look like fun and games, with a few bumps in the road out there, but trust me... it is just this side of controlled chaos. A horse is a living thing, and unlike a car, you both have to want to go forward before and moving forward is gonna happen.
Once you've got horsemanship, the rest falls into place very quickly, holding a lace straight and level...taking a hit... maintaining your composure through all of that, it can be learned, trust me.
All that told, it is much easier to take a rider and teach them to joust, than to take a fighter and teach them to ride. Both are possible though.
*whew* That turned out to be quite the shpeel...
---> Z
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Post by schlager7 on Jul 20, 2006 8:13:24 GMT -6
Great Video.
I hope you don't mind, but it just became the first selection in this forum's "theatre."
(Check out the menu right under the Texas Gulf Coast Fencing Forum logo)
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