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Post by bladesparks on Oct 6, 2012 8:35:35 GMT -6
This particular article is one of a few I have come across in the last few years as more and more groups studying older fencing forms decide to hold competitions. As this article is from an ARMA site, their position is predictable and completely in keeping with their tenets. I'm just curious about the thoughts of others with some background in either sport fencing or historical combat forms. Recreational Sportification Ruins Historical Combat Discipline
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Lance
Contributor
Posts: 12
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Post by Lance on Oct 6, 2012 8:51:06 GMT -6
I believe Scott Brown, who is widely respected in historical combat circles, has had experience with holding competitions. They hold one every year in Houston. I would be interested in his take.
I come from a more classical fencing background (although I did compete in the odd tournament or two in the 70s). My interest the last few years has been in the joust, both choreographed and competitive. The quotes in the sidebar to the ARMA article reference medieval tournaments, but do not go deeply into the subject. Like as not it is not an area ARMA has chosen to explore.
In the sense of the joust, there is actually quite a bit of material available on medieval (and later) tournaments and games of skill. The same people competing in the tournaments were the same people who had to know how to wield horse and lance on the battlefield.
Tournaments were seen as necessary outlets for aggressive tendencies which, in peacetime, tended to lead to rebellion and conflict. The powers that be, however, while recognizing the need to give their warriors combative practice and release of aggression also were the ones responsible for instituting safety measures.
A king might not worry overmuch that an individual knight might fall on the battlefield, but he was adamantly opposed to that knight throwing his life away in a frivolous game, since he would certainly be needing that skilled knight in future combat.
I would sum up the attitude as "You can die fighting for me, but don't you dare die in a game, I'm going to need you later."
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Post by greekfire on Nov 11, 2012 10:47:21 GMT -6
I was posting a classical fencing piece on the forum when I saw this thread. For the benefit of those unfamiliar with historical fencing, here is an example from the 2011 Western Martial Arts Workshop's annual Grand Assault of Arms. This features Spanish rapier school vs. Italian rapier school.
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Post by bladesparks on Nov 25, 2012 9:16:24 GMT -6
Just to give another perspective on historical forms in competition, below are two vids from this year's Swordfish.
The annual Swordfish competition in Sweden has been held since 2006 (IIRC). Below are two semi-finals from the 2012 Swordfish held earlier this November. These are the rapier (and dagger) semi-finals. I don't think the finals have been uploaded yet. It is unfortunate that the lead referee is directly in the camera's line of vision.
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Post by schlager7 on Nov 26, 2012 8:29:26 GMT -6
I can understand the trepidation some in the historical fencing community have with regards to competitions. As someone who referees at fencing tournaments a bit, I understand that the fencer begins playing to the rules as much as the opponent.
That said I would point out that, at the beginning of the 20th Century, a number of the most internationally competitive French fencers also participated in duels to first blood and similar duels.
Their writings indicated they very much knew the difference.
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Post by Martin Gale on Mar 10, 2013 9:35:49 GMT -6
Only slightly deviating from the original post, I found this the other day while on a forum devoted to Asian fighting arts, including sword arts. So far, no one has replied to the author.
I find it remeniscent of discussions about modern sabre being, essentailly, a four-edged weapon as practiced today. There is also some of the saame attitude of a sport's nuance and trainign to kill...
why is Kendo called a sword art?
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Post by schlager7 on Mar 16, 2014 15:23:00 GMT -6
It has been a year since this topic attracted a new post and I thought I would revisit it. The topic of competitions and rules with the HEMA community is reminiscent of what has been going on in the sport fencing community for the last century +. These are Schola Gladiatora videos of discussions with Scott Brown. Scott and I have met a few times and he strikes me as a thoughtful and sincere individual. He fully appreciates the the benefits and pitfalls of competition within the HEMA community.
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