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Post by katyblades on May 21, 2007 10:48:32 GMT -6
David,
I have been training referees for four years, but not at USFA events because they won't be used until recently. THE TRAINING OF A USFA REF DOES NOT BEGIN AT THE CLINIC, BUT IN THE CLUB BY THE COACH.
I run the events with USFA rules. My training for USFA referee actually begins at the club level, where I have students that begin to ref at the age of 6 and 7. Are those students ready to ref a USFA event yet? NO WAY? But you will find it difficult to find my advanced fencers that are not ready. It is part of the training. I have approximately 15 students that are ready for the USFA directors test right now. Is that planning for the future?
Your next question is why aren't they a ref. Several were told they could not attend the division hosted USFA directors clinic. Others want to attend but also have been told they would not be used except at my club. Their incentive is reduced.
I began looking to this point 4 years ago even on this board, and when I talk about tournaments and issues it is for a 10 year future projection.
I will agree that the tournament running has gotten better, but several years ago these same bout committee people would take an extra two hours to run a tournament. It was after I began advertising and completing tournaments of 40 people in an efficient manner that several of them caught up. Matt was actually the bout committee person at the tournament I was told about by the parents that began 2+ hours late, but I don't know if Terry was there.
Based on recent experiences with some of the names you mentioned, I am not ready to put my name on the line just because the bout committee is named. We can't live on yesterday's results.
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Post by JEC on May 21, 2007 13:37:14 GMT -6
Augie,
We have had several Referee clinics at our location hosted by Gary Van der wege. I am certain that Gary would be willing to put together a USFA (FOC) clinic at your club to get your fencers to take the test. The issue would be to get observed in a local USFA competition. Although, I am only a E7 F8 ref. I see the validity of David's points (truly David), but there are other ways to creatively increase the number and level of referees in all the SWS. Your approach is commendable! I hope other coaches were so pro-active.
Jose
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Post by DavidSierra on May 21, 2007 13:44:28 GMT -6
I run the events with USFA rules. My training for USFA referee actually begins at the club level, where I have students that begin to ref at the age of 6 and 7. Are those students ready to ref a USFA event yet? NO WAY? But you will find it difficult to find my advanced fencers that are not ready. It is part of the training. I have approximately 15 students that are ready for the USFA directors test right now. Is that planning for the future? Your next question is why aren't they a ref. Several were told they could not attend the division hosted USFA directors clinic. Others want to attend but also have been told they would not be used except at my club. Their incentive is reduced. Absolutely training of a referee begins at the club - I do the same with my students. Perhaps I should have stated it in a different way - the professional development of a referee does not end at the clinic, it merely starts there. Regardless of how it is stated, I'm stating this to counter a frequently held misconception, that people who have taken the clinic and passed the exam are done with their development as referees. On the contrary, it is just beginning. While they have passed a major milestone, and deserve kudos, encouragement and recognition for having done so, in many respects, they're just beginning. I encourage you to think about and perhaps agree with this statement. With all that being said, I will again make an offer, this time publically, the next time I am Head Referee for a tournament in the Houston area, I will contact you for the names and contact information of some of these promising fellows. If they are rated, I will give them a chance to be utilized - and I don't care WHERE the event is. I cannot promise that they will be paid, but I CAN promise that if they show up in referee uniform, with the appropriate materials, that they will have the opportunity to demonstrate the ability to earn a rating increase, and subsequently increase the likelyhood that they will be contacted and paid the next time there is a tournament. I will partner them with a more senior referee whom I trust to work with them in a pool round. I will conduct direct examination of their skills. I will offer them written feedback and points to work on to improve their skills. And I'll do this at any event that I am Head Ref for, not just in Houston, but anywhere else. Feel free to hold me to that promise, subject to the reasonable restrictions that they must have taken the clinic, passed the test (and I'll even allow them to take the test on-site!) and I know ahead of time that they will be attending, via direct contact with the individual in question (email or phone with them). And if you have 15 people ready for a clinic, I KNOW you can find an instructor to come in. See this post on F.net www.fencing.net/forums/thread30595-4.html#post559064 for just one of the multivariate of options. Also, notice I said "Team" with regard to BC Operations. Any members of that team can make mistakes or be overwhelmed by events, but when working as a team, it is a different story. But, if you're not going to utilize measures of successes as yardstick for prediction of future success, I'm curious what measures you ARE going to use?
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Post by DavidSierra on May 21, 2007 13:48:51 GMT -6
We have had several Referee clinics at our location hosted by Gary Van der wege. I am certain that Gary would be willing to put together a USFA (FOC) clinic at your club to get your fencers to take the test. The issue would be to get observed in a local USFA competition. Its worth noting that due to the hard work of people like Gary, our Section has one of the most active referee development programs in the country. National FOCs have commented numerous times how impressed they are with the caliber of referees who come out of our area, and that if they have earned a 6 or a 7 in our region, then they can trust that rating is accurate. This is most assuredly not the case across the country.
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Post by katyblades on May 21, 2007 15:27:41 GMT -6
David,
I will take you up on that, or better said my students will. The issue Jose posed was a better issue. How do you hold a director's clinic in your location when you can't hold a USFA competition and there are no director's clinics in the GCD that are open for all members? The last clinics that were open were held by Katy Blades in a SSCC and by Alliance in a SSCC that were open to all members.
I can hold USFA directors clinics all the time, bring someone down, but not have anyone rated because there is not a USFA tournament in that area in that year or at least semester.
I think Jose has a great point, and I need to team up with South Texas to hold these clinics because it is only 2 hours away.
I know that you don't believe the issues of the tournament delays, but I can only repeat what is told to me when the parents come back from a tournament and they have waited 2+ hours for it to begin with only 6 or 8 competitors. I can only measure it when I lose a student by telling them to go and then having that happen. How would you measure it? My parents expect professionalism, and starting when posted is the one measure they can understand. I am also making referance to recent events this season, not anything before 2006 -2007. Both Katy Blades and the USFA loses members when this happens.
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Post by JEC on May 21, 2007 18:15:29 GMT -6
If you are interested, considered done. We already plan to host 3 tournaments next season at different levels (youth/vet/team) just like this past year. Gary can provide you with the FOC endorsement and STX has allow us to have USFA tournaments.
Hail to Gary and Oscar!!!
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Post by captain jon on May 21, 2007 20:06:38 GMT -6
[/quote]
Okay, I have to admit my first thought here was - thats way to bloody many tournaments!
We're no where NEAR the number of capable and competent referees, bout committee and armoury techs we need to put on a schedule of events like this. [/quote]
Pulleeze! We're not talking about one club putting on an event every 30 days, but a consortium of adults wishing to get together once a year for the sports club they or their kids have a vested interest in. Twelve tournaments a year? We can't do that? With all our clubs here in Houston?
Quick question here, for the vastly uninformed like myself: Do you HAVE to have "capable and competent referees, bout committee and armoury techs" to run a tournament? I remember well, many unrated and D-and-under events held by TFA in Austin in which foil was directed by anyfencer, and I'm sure they were rated events because I got my "E" in one by beating Emilio Y! There was no "armoury techs" but you could borrow a blade if your's broke. A broken blade was the only reason you needed another, because there was no inspecton to fail. I'm not slamming TFA, by the way, as all the events they held started at least close to the time they were supposed to, and all fencers had a great time. And, as stated, I attended many. So did a lot of begining fencers like myself.
I think the point I'm trying to make is: is it really so difficult, or is it just that some people just have to beaurocrat things up so bad that they can't function unless all documents are filled out in triplicate and filed in the propper order...
Memo to Elite fencers upset by the newbee ref's bad calls: FENCE BETTER! Fence more obvious! Make all touches one-lighters! Quit complaining and try to help...
OK thats it. I'm done ranting
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Jett
Maitre
On the back![ss:Default]
Posts: 112
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Post by Jett on May 21, 2007 21:18:21 GMT -6
"Memo to Elite fencers upset by the newbee ref's bad calls: FENCE BETTER! Fence more obvious! Make all touches one-lighters! Quit complaining and try to help..."
WHAT?! You did not seriously mean that... no hahah, ofcourse you didn't.
Fence better? What do you consider good fencing? Every single touch being one light? If that's the case, perhaps we should invade the next Olympics and yell "You Suck" to every fencer that makes a valid or non valid touch on their opponent without getting a single light. That is completly ridiculous. You're basically saying if Fencer A make a perfect attack that arrives on Target and Fencer B panics and counterattacks off target then Fencer A should learn to fence better? Sorry, that's BS.
When I fence a tournament I go there to fence other fencers, not the referee. A referee should have more than a basic understanding of the rules (and right of way if needed). If I'm fencing an A Rated competition am I wrong in expecting referees that know the rules?
Ex. I fenced a DE that came down to 12-14 in the final encounter. While in his warning box, my opponent steps off strip with his back leg. The ref sees it, calls the halt but was unsure of what to do. In her hesitation my opponent insist that he could not be penalized past the end of the strip and insisted that the ref made me move back. For something that simple, the BC had to be called. This did not happen at an important tournament, but you're saying that if it did, the fencers were at fault?
Bad reffing at a Div II or Div III is completely understandable and somewhat expected. But you can't expect to go to Sectionals or SSCC and be forced to limit your actions way of fencing because the referee doesn't understand what happened.
I am at complete and total disagreement with that statement. Referees are human as well, and they are entitled to mistakes. Perhaps as many as it takes for them to get it right, but you shouldn't be telling fencers to change the way they fence because they are running into bad referees.
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Post by LongBlade on May 21, 2007 23:03:22 GMT -6
If you are interested, considered done. We already plan to host 3 tournaments next season at different levels (youth/vet/team) just like this past year. Gary can provide you with the FOC endorsement and STX has allow us to have USFA tournaments. Hail to Gary and Oscar!!! Just tell us when and where, Jose!
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Post by DavidSierra on May 22, 2007 8:56:59 GMT -6
Memo to Elite fencers upset by the newbee ref's bad calls: FENCE BETTER! Fence more obvious! Make all touches one-lighters! Quit complaining and try to help... You don't need to be an elite fencer to benefit greatly from competent referees (see Jett's post above). In fact, mid to low level fencing is some of the HARDEST to referee. Elite fencing is actually easier to referee (except for those really tricky calls where you really sweat it, like the counter-riposte call to end the Gold Medal DivI Women's Sabre bout in Tuscon at 15-14), but that is a totally different case). And, speaking as a coach here, telling your student to "get one lighters" is doing them a massive disservice. You're not only way out of line, you're totally off base. Fencing has moved on from the "everyone show up and self referee out of pools and maybe we'll have a couple of referees for the finals" days. And its better for it. In fact, unless its an event we're doing purely for very specific training purposes, my students wouldn't even show up to that kind of event. Same with most of the clubs. Snobbish? No. Serious? Yes. There are events we do participate in where its self-refereed, but we go to those for very specific purposes which do not involve competing to win. Move up to the 21st century here. Edit: Oh, and BTW, Jett falls into the category of people who "help out." He's blossoming into a fine young referee. And we have good plans for him in the future .
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Post by fox on May 22, 2007 12:02:41 GMT -6
Fencing has moved on from the "everyone show up and self referee out of pools and maybe we'll have a couple of referees for the finals" days. If I may be so bold. Fencing has "moved on" from those days in this section. What you describe is still the case up to at least the semifinals of some major events in a lot of sections around the country. Be grateful for what you have here...
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Post by DavidSierra on May 22, 2007 12:43:52 GMT -6
Fencing has moved on from the "everyone show up and self referee out of pools and maybe we'll have a couple of referees for the finals" days. If I may be so bold. Fencing has "moved on" from those days in this section. What you describe is still the case up to at least the semifinals of some major events in a lot of sections around the country. Be grateful for what you have here... As someone who was part of the group working their tails off to develop the quality and professionalism of tournaments in this Section... I'm quite aware. And quite glad I live, coach, and referee where I do, and not somewhere with lower standards.
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Post by katyblades on May 22, 2007 17:16:37 GMT -6
Guys,
We need to separate from the elite tournaments and the local events. There also needs to be a continued training to get additional directors to the level. If no other directors or bout committee people are introduced on the local level, where are the future directors going to come from?
I do have an interesting story from this year's sectional championships. The score is 3 - 3, time is running out. I begin my lunge by picking up my toe, and the director calls halt for time. I stop my lunge, and my opponent lunges and hits me in the arm. The touch is awarded. Ray Sexton comes to me and says that I clearly stopped and the touch was clearly after the halt. "Why was it awarded, he asked?" I trusted the ref based upon reputation. My bad assumption.
This call was by one of the FOC refs listed on this board as a tester. Sorry Jett, but everyone can make bad calls or incorrect calls. The reason I fence my epee with my style is that I am a foil fencer that aims for the hand based upon the directing we had for foil.
Jose, please give me one month lead time. It would also be helpful if we could schedule the events so that my teens could drive in and leave the same day. Be easy on the customers, and the sales will increase. Having tournaments that are based for the customers always increases turnout.
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Post by captain jon on May 22, 2007 22:10:08 GMT -6
Fencing has moved on from the "everyone show up and self referee out of pools and maybe we'll have a couple of referees for the finals" my students wouldn't even show up to that kind of event. Same with most of the clubs. Snobbish? Move up to the 21st century here. Moved on... and you want only one tounament a year in Houston. Thats not the way I want to go. I'de rather have 15 events a year with self-directing and no extra expensive bs added than one event with armouer, bout committee and flown-in refs that costs $50 and must be pre paid and I'm gonna miss it anyway because my daughter has a swim meet and I'm signed up as stroke judge so I can't back out. What it seems like you're trying to do is help a few of your elite fencers get better, which is commendable, but at the expense of all of the so-so fencers like myself. This reminds me of a protest I put up about the Pouj one year...in order to save time, they decided on 5-person pools. I pointed out that this meant one less bout for the fencers who were going to be eliminated early.(like guess who) In typical French fashion I was told "well, the good fencers won't notice or care." See, the point I'm trying to make is that the truly good fencers SHOULD do the SSCC Tournaments, as well as the Longhorn, the Pouj, and any other big events they can get to, but there is a MUCH larger group of folks that would just like to go someplace close by, pay $25 and have a fun fencing time while they fence folks they have'nt fenced ever before or have'nt seen in awhile. Your students wouldn't even show up to that kind of event? Are you sure? Snobish? Absolutely. Should you go so far as to sugest that they NOT go would lower you as a coach. I don't think you are considering, or perhaps even understand, whats good for fencing.
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Post by Dan Gorman on May 23, 2007 6:59:54 GMT -6
Self-reffing saber or foil pools sucks. Epee, not so much. I think this is largely responsible for the disparity in view points between Jon and the rest. Having refs is a very nice thing and important. Still, self-reffing isn't the end of the world for a club tournament. There is a place for these tournaments, just not anything you're likely to earn more than a C at.
Just my 2 cents.
Dan
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Post by DavidSierra on May 23, 2007 8:08:56 GMT -6
Moved on... and you want only one tounament a year in Houston. Thats not the way I want to go. I'de rather have 15 events a year with self-directing and no extra expensive bs added than one event with armouer, bout committee and flown-in refs that costs $50 and must be pre paid and I'm gonna miss it anyway because my daughter has a swim meet and I'm signed up as stroke judge so I can't back out. What it seems like you're trying to do is help a few of your elite fencers get better, which is commendable, but at the expense of all of the so-so fencers like myself. This reminds me of a protest I put up about the Pouj one year...in order to save time, they decided on 5-person pools. I pointed out that this meant one less bout for the fencers who were going to be eliminated early.(like guess who) In typical French fashion I was told "well, the good fencers won't notice or care." See, the point I'm trying to make is that the truly good fencers SHOULD do the SSCC Tournaments, as well as the Longhorn, the Pouj, and any other big events they can get to, but there is a MUCH larger group of folks that would just like to go someplace close by, pay $25 and have a fun fencing time while they fence folks they have'nt fenced ever before or have'nt seen in awhile. Your students wouldn't even show up to that kind of event? Are you sure? Snobish? Absolutely. Should you go so far as to sugest that they NOT go would lower you as a coach. I don't think you are considering, or perhaps even understand, whats good for fencing. First of all, where on earth did you get the idea that I only want one event a year in Houston? Sheesh, the ability of people to completely change words around on this board never ceases to amaze me. Second, its not just my higher level fencers who won't go to an event with self-refereeing, its the rest of my students as well and their parents. As Augie noted, fencing competes for participants with other sports that have events that are run according to a rulebook, with all the trappings of an honest and fair competition. I'd lose students if I suggested that they attend crappy events instead of better ones. And as Dan Gorman pointed out, self refereed foil and epee pools bite the big one. Not that mistakes can't happen in epee as well, as Augie illustrates (and I think I've made most of them over the years in the course of refereeing, and if you don't think good referees don't remember the mistakes that they've made, then you're sadly misinformed). Third, you're more likely to get stuck with 5 man pools at one of these pickup-style, self-refereed, bout-committee is also fencing and doing inspections, no grounded strips and bad lighting events than at an event with a proper staff. Why? Well, because, first of all, properly trained staff who actually know what they're doing would know that pools of 6-7 are the USFA standard, except in very specific and well defined cases (which do not include "lets get it over with faster") and that tournament is going to have the referee cadre to be able to handle the size of the event without staying until midnight. Sorry, I just do not have any desire to return to the days when self-refereed tournaments were the norm. If you were to know ANYTHING about me as a coach (which you obviously don't), you'd know first and foremost, I'm one of the most open and least controlling coaches out there. I have never told my fencers to not attend a properly run event and I have no intention of starting any time in the future. I have no qualms about my students fencing at another club for additional practice, or taking lessons with another coach. I make it a point to put together at least one occasions each year where we travel as a group to another club for a weekend camp, for the purpose of fostering new ties, meeting new people and building friendships through fencing. Yes, I do know and understand what is good for the sport of fencing, as it moves forward into the 21st century. I've given more of my blood, sweat, tears, energy and time to this sport than you can dream of, and sacrificed more than you could even imagine, and done it on a scale and a reach that you can barely fathom, much less understand. And why? Because this sport gave me a place to go during a very dark time early in my life, because of the friends and colleagues that I've developed and because of the light in some little kid's eyes when he finally understands how to do a compound attack and score a touch the best fencer in the club and truly realize, possibly for the first time in his life, that he CAN do something he really tries to.
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Jett
Maitre
On the back![ss:Default]
Posts: 112
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Post by Jett on May 23, 2007 8:18:50 GMT -6
What it seems like you're trying to do is help a few of your elite fencers get better, which is commendable, but at the expense of all of the so-so fencers like myself. Now that is especially not true. The Gulf Coast has very few annual tournaments that an "elite" fencer can look foward to. Cougar Call to Arms, Battle on the Bayou, Clear Lake Open, Heavy Metal, and just recently, the Houston Cups. The number of restricted tournaments (Y10, Y12, Y14, Div II, and Div III) completly outnumber the number of annual open tournaments. An "elite" fencer in the GCD would have to travel out of the division to "get better." No so-so fencers are being overlooked in the GCD. The number of developmental tournaments held in the GCD this past season was insane! It made me switch to sabre because that's the only weapon I didn't have a classification in. Now, I'm almost scared to earn a C in sabre. Take a look at the tournaments you are naming for Elite fencers. SSCC, Longhorn, Pouj... That's Dallas, Austin, Shrevport, Houston, San Marcos, and Ok. Quite a commute for an elite fencer, eh? Basically, unless you live in the San Marcos/Austin/San Antonio area, as an elite fencer, you're screwed.. Now, my question to you, If the elite fencers must travel to another city to compete, who's fencing the local tournaments hosted almost every weekend? There is nothing stoping a so-so fencer from fencing an open event, however, it is completly impossible for an elite fencer to fence a restricted event. Who then is at the disadvantage? In closing, I'll ask one more question, who is more deserving of a D classification: A fencer who wins a Div III competition or a fencer who finishes 8th in an A1?
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Post by DavidSierra on May 23, 2007 8:31:46 GMT -6
What it seems like you're trying to do is help a few of your elite fencers get better, which is commendable, but at the expense of all of the so-so fencers like myself. Now that is especially not true. The Gulf Coast has very few annual tournaments that an "elite" fencer can look foward to. Cougar Call to Arms, Battle on the Bayou, Clear Lake Open, Heavy Metal, and just recently, the Houston Cups. The number of restricted tournaments (Y10, Y12, Y14, Div II, and Div III) completly outnumber the number of annual open tournaments. An "elite" fencer in the GCD would have to travel out of the division to "get better." No so-so fencers are being overlooked in the GCD. The number of developmental tournaments held in the GCD this past season was insane! It made me switch to sabre because that's the only weapon I didn't have a classification in. Now, I'm almost scared to earn a C in sabre. Take a look at the tournaments you are naming for Elite fencers. SSCC, Longhorn, Pouj... That's Dallas, Austin, Shrevport, Houston, San Marcos, and Ok. Quite a commute for an elite fencer, eh? Basically, unless you live in the San Marcos/Austin/San Antonio area, as an elite fencer, you're screwed.. Now, my question to you, If the elite fencers must travel to another city to compete, who's fencing the local tournaments hosted almost every weekend? There is nothing stoping a so-so fencer from fencing an open event, however, it is completly impossible for an elite fencer to fence a restricted event. Who then is at the disadvantage? In closing, I'll ask one more question, who is more deserving of a D classification: A fencer who wins a Div III competition or a fencer who finishes 8th in an A1? *chuckle* actually, Jett, the answer to that last question might surprise you. The D earned in an A1 could come from getting lucky in a single DE bout and getting schooled by the gold medalist in the next. The D in a DivIII competition could come after winning half a dozen hard fought DE bouts. I know that back when I was competing, I earned a D in foil of all things for placing somewhere in the top 8 in some small foil competition. *shrug* But the first sabre rating I felt I earned was the one that came from winning a 25 or so person D and under event. Numerous years, additional wins rankings, competitive retirement and moving on to coaching and refereeing (blasted knee!) later, I still remember almost every touch of of that gold medal bout. But the rest of your points are indeed valid, as is the spirit behind your final question. Better and larger events across the board are a positive development.
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Post by JEC on May 23, 2007 8:34:44 GMT -6
What it seems like you're trying to do is help a few of your elite fencers get better, which is commendable, but at the expense of all of the so-so fencers like myself. Basically, unless you live in the San Marcos/Austin/San Antonio area, as an elite fencer, you're screwed.. ... In closing, I'll ask one more question, who is more deserving of a D classification: A fencer who wins a Div III competition or a fencer who finishes 8th in an A1? Jett, Your statement for "elite fencer" is only correct for Epee. Foil elite fencers in STX have to travel, and STX saber elite fencers are rare. I think winning a Div III NAC has more merit than earning 8th in an A1 (only one DE). Now comparing winning a D1 vs 8th in A1: A1 requires only 2 As, 2Bs and 2 Cs, everybody else could be U. Final placement requires that As and Bs are in top 8. Thus, 7th or 8th place could be easier than winning D1 tournament with 1 C and 14 Ds. However, this might be the exception to the more common situation where A1 is loaded and 8th is a very good result. with 14 fencers that are D and 1 C
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kb
Squire
Posts: 261
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Post by kb on May 23, 2007 9:01:24 GMT -6
*chuckle* actually, Jett, the answer to that last question might surprise you. The D earned in an A1 could come from getting lucky in a single DE bout and getting schooled by the gold medalist in the next. The D in a DivIII competition could come after winning half a dozen hard fought DE bouts. Maybe in Foil and Sabre, but in Epee-in the SES? One A2 last year-had 17 A fencers out of a total of 25 or 26 ...now earning your "D" in that one would have been a feat! Heck, this is such a good section, earning a rating of any kind in any weapon can be hard!
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Post by DavidSierra on May 23, 2007 10:25:49 GMT -6
Maybe in Foil and Sabre, but in Epee-in the SES? One A2 last year-had 17 A fencers out of a total of 25 or 26 ...now earning your "D" in that one would have been a feat! Heck, this is such a good section, earning a rating of any kind in any weapon can be hard! *chuckle* agreed, most heartily. But, Jett's original question was comparing any possible A1 with any possible DivIII. Quite a difference. Winning a well atteneded open epee tournament in this Section should be considered a mark of distinction.
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Post by katyblades on May 23, 2007 15:25:07 GMT -6
We keep talking about self-directing. I can run the tournaments without self-directing. If the fencers complain that the directing is skewed then I would gladly give them their money back. There are extremely qualified bout committee members and directors qualified for local tournaments that aren't mentioned in this board, (hi KB), and there does not have to be the rain is falling mentality that we can't hold tournaments because there may not be enough bout committee people or directors. The fencers will decide quickly, and won't come back. Any cheating or even hints at cheating will probably find a way to this board before the day is done, (Alabama), and then all the coaches will know to warn their students.
I had Olympians and Olympic officials directing at my tournaments that were not recognized as directors yet. I have discovered that a wealth of talent lives in this area that has not been tapped. How do we get them back in the sport if we don't have opportunities for them? (I just got asked class information from a lady that fenced competitively in Venezuala that is in her early 40s and had to modify my post).
Again, I ask a question I asked earlier. If this tournament list sounds so reasonable for the GCD, then how do we start the process to get it accepted for the GCD? Each club should be able to host a tournament in each group and there should be this type every two months at least. I think more often for teens because they miss out with the other social things happening in their calendar or their family.
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Post by captain jon on May 23, 2007 19:57:47 GMT -6
We keep talking about self-directing. they miss out with the other social things happening in their calendar or their family. What I'm saying is I'de rather go to a sizable self-directed tourny than stay home. Yeah I know it's different in foil and sabre, but if there is no doubt as to the action, that means you did the move properly, right? Sure mistakes are made, but don't you learn how and where they're made? Better than staying home cause one of the events was canceled because of the possibility that the events conflicted. Do you want to fence, or stay home? The second comment is what's killing me...I was registered for 2 events last weekend, and had to bail on both due to unavoidable circumstances. My appologies to all organizers, by the way. I've been trying for six months to get my scooter back together and have'nt had a chance to get to that either. If I had a choice of events, say every other weekend, surely I could make it to one of them so I got at least SOME practice. Of course, Alliance has a regular Saturday morning get together, but having my head handed to me by a dozen 16-year-old A's in a 15 fencer get together is more than my ego can handle every month, but I can recomend it to anyone who has the nads to show up. What a work-out! OBTW Jett, I like your spirit. If you get a chance, please beat the snot out of me when next we fence. I promise I'll learn something from it... Have some Karma
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Post by schlager7 on Jun 7, 2007 22:08:17 GMT -6
I will agree that the tournament running has gotten better, but several years ago these same bout committee people would take an extra two hours to run a tournament. It was after I began advertising and completing tournaments of 40 people in an efficient manner that several of them caught up. Matt was actually the bout committee person at the tournament I was told about by the parents that began 2+ hours late, but I don't know if Terry was there. The more I reads this, the more puzzled I become. If it was "several years ago" and Matt was "the bout committee person" at the tournament it was likely a Clear Lake tournament. Lord knows, CLFC has had its moments, but in all honesty I cannot recall any event at any of our old tournaments being 2+ hours late in starting. An event like that would be wedged in my memory I should think.
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Post by katyblades on Jun 8, 2007 12:04:29 GMT -6
Okay, you are making me be more specific. Both the tournaments this year were at Bayou City for D and Under and/or Saber. I don't know if Bayou City was the host, since these students are in Canada. I just know that it was this year since the fencer has only been fencing one year at this point. I don't know who the bout committee people were.
At the Cougar Call to Arms that Collin Eaton earned his "A" the bout committee took an hour siesta between pools and DEs.
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