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Post by Parry Nine on Nov 17, 2005 17:11:34 GMT -6
I am having a problem with my club and thought I'd pick some people's brains about it. If you have suggestions, please help me out! This semester began with a bang. We had a consistent 15-20 or so members, competetive and non-competetive, showing up for practice, on time (7:00), and all for the most part, were working hard. As the semester has gone on, fewer and fewer fencers have been coming, the ones that are there aren't trying hard (just going through the motions), and are plain being lazy. Many members are showing up at 7:20-7:30, talking instead of getting dressed and we don't start warming up until 7:30 with a few people then we're at full strength by 7:45. As a coach trained in a strict environment, this is an insult to me. I show up at 6:45, fix weapons, get group lesson plans ready, and do other maintainence for the club. Last meeting, I left early because I had plenty better things to do other than watch everyone talk and gossip. What can I do? I feel that if I get on everyone's cases, they'll just not show up period because it is more or less a come-as-you-please club. I've started doing my group lessons and lectures for a full hour therefore getting into their free fencing time. Any suggestions? If anyone has a word or two, please either post it here, or shoot me a PM. Thanks!
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Post by captain jon on Nov 17, 2005 19:16:40 GMT -6
How about announcing an upcoming club-only tournament? Sometime in late January, say. Then begin playing on eveyone's competitive spirit...There's always a few rivalrys, and one fencer is generally accepted as the weaker of the two. Help the lessor gain in skills, and keep the two from fencing so much, while commenting on the "skills gain" occasionally. With luck, half the club will show up to prove what good fencers they are, while the other half will show up to prove them wrong. In the meantime, keep eveyone fencing and drilling to "make a good showing" at the upcoming event.
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Post by schlager7 on Nov 17, 2005 20:13:54 GMT -6
Consider bridging the social get-changed-get-stretched-gossip-circle time with some imaginative play that also might be used to warm them up. I recall a game one of my coaches employs with younger (and in my case, not-so-young) fencers called "proletariat." As I recall there is much running, evading and throwing involved. I can check on the rules. They were pretty simple as I recall.
One thing I do with my beginners is find out at the very beginning why they picked fencing. Exercise? Competition? Are they closet swashbucklers? Whatever the answer, these can cue you into little nuances to add from time to time to keep their attention up.
I had a theatre student, so I showed him in some solo work how competitive fencing moves, if stretched just out of distance, can play realistically on stage. (Stole most of that from an Anthony DeLongis tape).
I had two ladies with yoga backgrounds looking for exercise that was less boring. I started them with a bit more stretches and footwork than normal (because they related to that part) and paired them up so that, once the blade work began they saw each other as partners first, not adversaries to vanquish. Once they got comfortable with the moves, they were amused to occasionally defeat some of the other students.
Please understand, however, that mine are continuing education classes and wind up as more of a "Fencing Appreciation" class than classes of competitors. YMMV
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Post by JEC on Nov 17, 2005 22:14:00 GMT -6
Jon, Choose a different date. We expect you in San Antonio for the veteran competition. Hope to see you here then, Jose
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Post by saberbobcat on Nov 17, 2005 23:38:32 GMT -6
This is a tough one. Attrition is one of the most difficult things to deal with as a coach. A variety of levels of fencers can complicate this even worse. Try some different things to spice it up. You might try things like doing footwork to music and the person with the best footwork gets to bring the music (CD) for the next week. Have them try footwork holding glasses half filled with water (take a mop that day) and let them see how difficult it is to keep the water still. The one that spills the most gets to mop. The water is fun footwork to do in combination with soft background music. Bring tape and have them mark target area on their opponents with numbers and practice attacks and parried in order, out of order, and on command. Have them warm up with glove drills or throwing balls, practicing on extending their arms perfectly. Have them lead footwork, taking turns choosing who is next. Play Simon Says- but with footwork. Have a day when they get to teach their favorite move. Announce it in advance, so they look forward to sharing and are forced to think about it in advance. Then have all your fencers practice the move of the day. If all else fails, change your meeting time back a half hour to when they are coming and announce that you are changing the class to that time since that is when they are coming. That way you are not wasting your time waiting on them. Hold a King of the Hill night. Have fencers draw numbers and go straight into a direct elimination bouts. The last one is the King and earns a ribbon. One week can be epee, another foil, another saber. During stretching time, teach vocabulary. Then quiz them on it. Get into the technical stuff and discuss rules then too. Have a contest to see who can explain the most words at the end of the month. Reward them with something silly, like a certificate. Make them direct and corner judge. Hold them accountable for all the rules on the spot. But- remember this, as fun as you can make it, some folks are simply curious and once they know a little, that is all they want. Some can not take defeat and get discouraged very easily and decide that fencing is just not for them. Most are just recreational fencers and just want to enjoy bouting some.Others have financial situations where they can no longer afford to come or some other sport sounds interesting. Boyfriends and girlfriends can really reek havoc with your teenagers, too. You may find one really dedicated and serious fencer out of a hundred students or more, but that ONE might be the one that goes to the Olympics. So, don't take it personal. They really do not mean to insult you. Just expect some of this and use it to your advantage. Do not allow it to get the best of you. Know this is part of the game all coaches play. When you run out of ideas, attend a coaching seminar. What ever you do---- Never, never, never quit! Hold out for the treasure you are wanting so badly to find.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Nov 18, 2005 1:09:07 GMT -6
First off, sit down with the club and talk about what your goals for the club are and what their goals are. Try to reach a common ground and map out how to get there. Discuss the commitment needed to get there and what your expectations are. Get on the club members when they don't meet their end and praise them when they do.
As for what's happening in your club, my experience with collegiate fencing boils down to a few things (I like to think they're truths (maybe even Truths)):
1) The club will have an identity which will be hard to change. This identity can be competitive, recreational, social, classical, etc. If you try to change this, you will alienate, and lose, fencers. If you want them to be competitive and they aren't you will have to pull a lot of teeth. This is a painful process.
2) The semester takes its toll and you have to pay it. At the start of the semester the students all get a syllabus laying out their class schedule -- what reading needs to be done when, what papers will be due when, when the tests are, etc. They use these to write down numbers for men/women, directions to parties, numbers for delivery places, and various things I can't imagine. They are always surprised by the fact that they have a paper due tomorrow and can't make it to practice tonight. I'm not saying I was any different, but my priorities were in the right place and I went to practice anyway. Some kids want to graduate though.
3) A lot of college students will start the semester with aspirations of making the Olympic team for the next quadrennial. They will buy Uhlmann's top of the line FIE equipment. All of it. They will fence a month and you will never see them again. I don't know why they suddenly turn away from the sport. I blame space monkeys. That or the fact that with them finally out of their parents' house for the first time ever, they're trying a lot of new things and fencing is bound to lose out sometimes.
As for solutions, let me know if you find one that works. I like the idea of changing things up sometimes, but if you do it too much it becomes about the games and not the fencing. In the end, I'm a fan of yelling myself. I think I could probably be replaced with a tape loop saying fence, bend your knees, and a few other choice platitudes. It has to be balanced with some kind of compassion though (fortunately I fake that pretty well), or you just end up being an ass.
This has gotten long, so I'll finish it with this: you have to communicate with the fencers. Your goals, their goals, and what needs to be done. If you don't, things will never really progress.
Hope this helps.
Dan
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Post by schlager7 on Nov 18, 2005 8:38:52 GMT -6
In a similar vein, here is an excerpt from a yahoo group set up for a fencing club somewhere in Texas. This club is realizing its own shortcomings regarding their own dedication. A problem severe enough they face losing their coaches. This thread began with a concern that the club was recruiting new members too fast. I've made some deletions of specific people & place names...
I agree that our club does have problems with growing, but I also believe that our problems run much deeper.
Ever since our "club" began, we have had serious issues with organization and authority. Those who were assigned tasks did not complete them, completed them late, or completed them half-hearted. The students have been disrespectful, unwilling to learn, and uncontrollable. The blame lies with no one person in particular; it is the fault of every member, student, or parent who has not tried to remedy the situation, including me!
When [the first coach] left we were desperately in need of a coach. [The new coach] graciously accepted not only to be our coach, but also to drive all the way from [another city] at his own expense. We owe [the new coach] a great debt of gratitude! Sadly, we have repaid the generosity of our Coach by NOT respecting his authority and NOT following the few guidelines he requested. As a result our club is slowly dying. If we do not straighten up soon we may find ourselves without a coach, without a club, and without fencing.
I do not believe that the club is ready to invite new members because of these massive problems. I agree that we are being dishonest by promoting our club as a good thing.
Once these problems are remedied, the seemingly small problems mentioned about growing will be worked out also.
1. "We are already maxed out as far as space." -- There is always outdoors. I would rather have uncommitted members quit because of the outside conditions than stay and apply themselves half-hearted. If members are willing to stick it out during the hard times perhaps they will be best for our club.
2. "We only have 1 coach... how can [the new coach] coach all who need it?" -- If we get the other problems fixed and students are willing to learn, Coach [name withheld] can easily teach several of the older members to help others, not only during parry drills. This all relies on the willingness of the members.
3. "Our club is not stable" Perhaps if everyone applied himself 110 percent (as students are required in school sports) Coach [name withheld] would be more willing to help us stabilize our club. If I were him, I would have given up on [our club] a long time ago.
One thing we must realize is that Coach [name withheld] is not responsible for anything but instructing the kids. If the kids are unwilling to learn there is nothing he can do. Parents need to get involved by attending lessons, controlling their kids, and enforcing the rules. These are not the jobs of the Coach!
Maybe if we all ask the Coach's forgiveness, submit to his authority 100 percent, and do our best to learn the rest will fall into place.
THANK YOU [name withheld] FOR HANGING IN THERE!! I ask forgiveness for myself for not applying myself as much as I should have been.
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Post by Parry Nine on Nov 18, 2005 16:13:54 GMT -6
Very interesting ideas. Thanks for the suggestions! Any other experiences to relate?
I'll try some of these things next semester (Can't now because we only have about a week and a half left before xmas break) and I'll let y'all know if it works or not.
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Katman
Squire
[ss:Default]
Posts: 269
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Post by Katman on Nov 19, 2005 0:23:33 GMT -6
I'd probably just echo what Dan said. Sums up the UH club as well.
One thing about some clubs college clubs is that the fencing can start collapsing in on itself if members don't get out and compete outside of SWIFA or visit other clubs during their summer and winter breaks. This is especially true if there's no permanent coach hanging around and members teach themselves.
Encourage people to fence at tournaments outside of SWIFA if you can. But that all echos back to Dan's comment about a club having a certain "character" that may take time to reshape if that's what you want to do.
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Post by captain jon on Nov 19, 2005 0:43:31 GMT -6
Jon, Choose a different date. We expect you in San Antonio for the veteran competition. Hope to see you here then, Jose I'm there...I'll be the one standing on Longblades shoulders scanning the salle for a challenging opponent
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Post by LongBlade on Nov 19, 2005 20:54:11 GMT -6
Then maybe you just need to look down, Jon!
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