|
Post by Aldo N on Apr 22, 2006 8:11:05 GMT -6
I'm curious. According to the Clear Lake Iaido dojo's website, they practice a style called Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu.
Elsewhere I read that the Houston Budokan practices a type called Hokushin Itto Ryu.
I don't suppose anyone here could explain the difference (and would I comprehend the significance)?
|
|
|
Post by Emily Egan on Apr 22, 2006 11:52:50 GMT -6
I don't suppose anyone here could explain the difference (and would I comprehend the significance)? I don't know anything about what the Houston Budokan does, but I do know that there are many different styles of Iai that have survived to now. As with any living tradition the precise form the art takes differs according to the times & location in which it is shaped, as well as those who practice and pass it on. Most of the Japanese martial traditions were originally regional styles, that is back in the feudal era these were only practiced by samurai of the XXX clan, or maybe only by a particular family. The style I practice at one time was only practiced by and handed down to samurai of Tosa Han. For a short listing of some of these styles see: www.koryu.com/guide/battojutsu.htmlI hope this helps answer your question.
|
|
|
Post by Jason White on Oct 20, 2006 0:42:55 GMT -6
We practice Yamauchi Ha, which is one of three branches of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. Ms. Egan teaches Hokiyama Ha, all are very similar with minor differences in the kata. Our school is called Iron Dragon Martial Arts, we are located in east Houston off I-10 & federal. Darrell Craig teaches Mugai Ryu which has considerable differances from MJER.
|
|
|
Post by Emily Egan on Oct 21, 2006 20:50:43 GMT -6
Hi Jason, Is your school part of the Texas Komei Jyuku? www.katsujin.org/komeijuku.htmFor those reading along, there are more than three branches of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu (MJER). I elected to stop keeping count years ago, but suffice it to say there's a bunch. In particular there are at least several different branches that call themselves Yamauchi-ha MJER. --Emily
|
|
|
Post by Jason White on Oct 23, 2006 0:36:08 GMT -6
I'm under Grandmaster Hyun, Soo Lim from Korea, he is an 8th dan directly under Sekiguchi Sensei. I have been in Korea for the last couple of weeks with him. Somehow one of Bushey Sensei's students found out about our group & I was invited to visit them. I have since recieved many email's from Walt Bushey Sensei, his student, & Brett Denison Sensei of Colorado seemingly happy to here that there is another Yamauchi Ha group in the US. I agree that there are hundreds of MJER branches out there, but since Oe Masamichi(Tanemura Ha) did not name a successor, I believe that the only true MJER organizations are the ones created by direct students of or in a direct line of Masamichi. Hokiyama Ha, Yamauchi Ha, & Masaoka Ha are the only ones to my knowledge that follow this lineage. There are others, such as Muso Shinden, Shindo Munen, etc. that have dirived from Tanamura Ha, but they are not MJER. I know that you are very knowledgeable in this area, please elaborate or help me out if I'm incorrect. Thank You.
|
|
|
Post by Charles Mahan on Oct 27, 2006 9:15:17 GMT -6
While I would agree that there are a number of lines of MJER who trace their lineage back to Oe-sensei and that they are perfectly legitimate, I would like to point out that nobody within the Seitokai line(ie the line headed by Ikeda-soke) refers to this line as Hogiyama-ha. This is a term I have really only heard from folks outside of the Seitokai/ZNIR group.
|
|
|
Post by charlesmahan on Oct 27, 2006 9:21:50 GMT -6
Jason,
I wonder if you could answer a question for me. I was under the impression that Sekiguchi Komei was not handing out dan ranks. Do you know who awarded your teacher his 8th dan?
|
|
|
Post by Emily Egan on Oct 28, 2006 10:43:55 GMT -6
I agree that there are hundreds of MJER branches out there, but since Oe Masamichi(Tanemura Ha) did not name a successor, I believe that the only true MJER organizations are the ones created by direct students of or in a direct line of Masamichi. Hokiyama Ha, Yamauchi Ha, & Masaoka Ha are the only ones to my knowledge that follow this lineage. There are others, such as Muso Shinden, Shindo Munen, etc. that have derived from Tanamura Ha, but they are not MJER. When I said that there were more than three I was not including Muso Shinden ryu or any of the other ryu off-shoots. I only meant independent branches that call themselves MJER. Also, to further clarify, when I said there are at least several different branches of Yamauchi-ha I did not mean different dojos under Seikiguchi-sensei. Rather these other branches have their own separate lineage going back to Oe. For more discussions about the "family tree" go to: listserv.uoguelph.ca/archives/iaido-l.html and search the archives for "MJER history". Also you can go to : and do an advanced search for "MJER history" in the Sword Forum. Like wise on: www.swordforum.com/do an advanced search for "MJER history" in the Japanese Swordsmanship Arts forum.
|
|
|
Post by Emily Egan on Oct 28, 2006 10:49:41 GMT -6
While I would agree that there are a number of lines of MJER who trace their lineage back to Oe-sensei and that they are perfectly legitimate, I would like to point out that nobody within the Seitokai line(ie the line headed by Ikeda-soke) refers to this line as Hogiyama-ha. This is a term I have really only heard from folks outside of the Seitokai/ZNIR group. Just wanted to say that I concur with Charles on this. I have only heard the term "Hogiyama-ha" used by non-members of Seitokai/ZNIR MJER.
|
|
|
Post by Jason White on Oct 31, 2006 2:17:36 GMT -6
First, the reason I use Hokiyama Ha is simply to distinguish the differant organizations. Second, Master Lim's rank came directly from Sekiguchi Sensei. This was verified by Bushey Sensei through Sekiguchi Sensei. I know that he has recently handed out meikyo kaiden, so I cannot give you a complete answer, but I will ask Bushey Sensei when I see him. Third, "When I said that there were more than three I was not including Muso Shinden ryu or any of the other ryu off-shoots. I only meant independent branches that call themselves MJER. Also, to further clarify, when I said there are at least several different branches of Yamauchi-ha I did not mean different dojos under Seikiguchi-sensei. Rather these other branches have their own separate lineage going back to Oe." That's exactly how I took it. I brought up the other organizations in a 'for example' manner. Also, thank you for the family tree link, that will help me in my research. "
|
|
|
Post by Jason White on Oct 31, 2006 15:36:18 GMT -6
One more thing, I did a google search & you are write, Hokiyama Ha is only used by other MJER branches. Even though I am not part of your organization, I will use Seitokai out of respect.
|
|
|
Post by schlager7 on Nov 7, 2010 10:08:44 GMT -6
regarding this thread, I recently stumbled across a chart in an article on Iwata Sensei showing the lineage of his training. I am reproducing part of the bio below. Iwata Sensei is, at present, the most important instructor of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido. He represents an unbroken, undeniable and clear lineage to the founder of MJER Iaido, Oe Masamichi, Roshu. At the age of 97, Iwata Sensei actively teaches anyone who genuinely wishes to learn, despite his advanced age, and his week long seminars in the cold mountains of Iyo Ozu, Matsuyama, Japan often exceed five hours without a break. He teaches annual seminars that run five days of continuous, demanding training. Iwata Sensei unapologetically teaches the old way, and demands perfection from those who would learn from him. It is the way he was taught, and it is the only way to truly study Iai. Iwata Sensei was born Iwata Norikazu in September of 1913. He trained in the local kendo and iaido, accomplishing his third dan in 1933 at the age of twenty. He joined the army at the end of 1933, and in 1935 was active in the military police. From 1936 to 1945, he was an instructor for the military police. At the end of the war, since Japan had lost, he served in a Soviet prisoner of war camp for four years, located in Siberia. In 1949, he was released and permitted to return to Japan. On his return from the way, he studied the iai of the Zen Nippon Kendo Renmei under Koda Morio Sensei for eight years and earned godan rank. On a chance encounter returning from a tournament, he had a long conversation with Yamamoto Takuji Sensei on the train home. Yamamoto Sensei studied the old way of iai directly under Oe Masamichi, and with his fellow instructors, known as the Tosa Sensei (the instructors of Kochi prefecture), continued to teach and train students in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. Intrigued, in 1957, he committed himself fully to iaido, and petitioned the Tosa Sensei to accept him as a student. Ignorinig their refusal, his persistance succeeded after several months, when Yamamoto Sensei accepted him as a student. For twenty years, he trained with Yamamoto Sensei as a private student, eventually receiving his Menkyo Kaiden. During this time, he often had the opportunity to learn from the other Tosa Sensei - Fukui Harumasa, the 19th Soke of MJER, Mori Shegeki, Shimazaki Teruyuki, and Taoka Tsutau. In 1972, after the death of Yamamote Sensei, he trained with Mori Sensei until 1988, and also received Menkyo Kaiden from him. Of the four Tosa Sensei given Menkyo Kaiden from Oe Sensei, Iwata Sensei has Menkyo Kaiden from two, and the other two died before giving anyone their Menkyo. Often also teaching and training, were Shimazaki Teruyuki, Suzue Yoshige and Fukui Harumasa, also direct students of Oe Sensei. Of all people alive, none has more expertise in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu than Iwata Norikazu, nor does anyone beside Iwata Sensei have the right to claim and teach proper waza. In 1976 he was awarded Hachidan. In 1983 he was awarded the Hanshi title. In addition, he also holds Kyoshi Nanadan and Renshi Rokudan in Kendo. For over thirty years, he has held these ranks and continued to teach students from all over the world.
|
|