nemo
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Jun 23, 2008 8:07:24 GMT -6
Post by nemo on Jun 23, 2008 8:07:24 GMT -6
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Jun 25, 2008 7:31:59 GMT -6
Post by Prudence on Jun 25, 2008 7:31:59 GMT -6
lol, you know as much as I do
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Jun 25, 2008 8:12:41 GMT -6
Post by LongBlade on Jun 25, 2008 8:12:41 GMT -6
Amazing what you can find when you learn how to use a Google search... campechesteel.2itb.com/photo3_9.htmlIn November, the area the SCA designated as Ansteorra (Oklahoma and Texas minus the western tip that takes in El Paso and is in the Mountain Time Zone) was re-designated as a principality and Chris Zakes became the rapier marshal for the entire principality. The society continued its growth in Ansteorra with the official creation in 1977 of a group in the Bryan-College Station area, dubbed Shadowlands. Meanwhile, one future SCA fencer, Robert Lyle, was getting his first real introduction to fencing in East Texas. Despite his less than inspiring encounter with fencing in Houston in 1973, he gave the sword another try. This time the instructor was the former Texas A & M University coach, Russell Wieder. "Mr. Wieder was retired, but drove from Lufkin to Nacogdoches every week, brought his own weapons and masks for us, and did it for not much more than gas money." "He did it to share his love of the sword with us. I can not praise him enough for that gift." "In 1977 Master Russell K. Wieder volunteered to teach a fencing class for us in Nacogdoches. He loved the sword, but he taught foil for beginners (and women) and saber because he wanted to round out our education. But he loved the epee, and he made me love it too. He taught it as a real weapon: in fact, his personal epees were sharps, with barbed point d'arrets tied on." Another of Wieder’s pupils in this era was Wayne Hughes, a student at nearby Stephen F. Austin State University. Interestingly, Hughes had actually grown up in the U. S. Panama Canal Zone, where Wieder many years before had crossed blades with he kendo fencer. Hughes recalled, " remember when Master Wieder invited the SFASU fencing club to his house (Lufkin, TX) for an evening of social interaction and night fencing! We set up candles outside on the lawn (no artificial light form what I can remember) and fenced …saber! Now I am no fanatic of saber then (or now) but away we went!"
Wieder was now nearing the end of his teaching days and Lyle would be among his last students. Even so late into the twentieth century, Wieder was still using the old ways, especially in epee. Lyle and the other students learned epee using the Italian grip and points d’arret. Being young, they did not always observe the safest manner of using the points (a heavy cotton duck jacket), but managed to find them instructional.
As Lyle later recalled, "I learned to fence epee with a point d’arret (means Stop in French), but I didn't know the full history. We did a lot of fencing in shirtsleeves in my misspent youth, and a point d’arret can leave a scratch like a thorn when it slides. On a square hit it still feels like a TB tester. Actually, just bad enough to encourage your parries to be perfect, not enough to injure . . .but very hard on shirts."
At Wieder’s old post, Texas A&M, Abe Cyrus continued to coach the Aggie fencing club, with R. H. Ballinger remaining as faculty advisor. Presidency of the club had passed to Scott Mahan, with Mark Turpin as Vice-President, Annette Mahan as Secretary and Tom Redmond as Treasurer. Other members of the club included Luanna Lettieri, Rhonda Blinderman, Rhonda Ross, Susan Longhofer, Gary Craddock, Susan Thomas, Andy Dunks, Steven Tinker, Kathy Bauchspies, Pamela McCown, Holly Scarborough, Omer Tuncata, Fred Mergner, Philip Mitchell, Joe Elliot, Michael Christian, Regnad Kcin and C. Urchin [?]. Clearly, fifteen years had made a difference in the formerly all-male club and college.
Russell Wieder was not the only one teaching fencing for the pure love of the game. Much further down the Texas coast, in the area of Harlingen and Brownsville, Ken Hogan set up shop. According to Gerard Poujardieu, "Ken used to teach fencing at the Marine Academy in Harlingen."
www.anchoragefencingclub.com/Russell%20K.%20Wieder%20Bio.doc
A short bio of Master Russell K. Wieder-wahm
The following article was copied from The Campeche Steel www.campechesteel.2itb.com/catalog.html
It should come as no surprise that his students did not share Arnold Mercado’s view of Wieder. As one of his much later students described him, "Maestro Wieder coached the Olympic saber team in the 1950s and boxed professionally." A man of strong opinions, he was good with a sabre, but held it in disdain as a "butcher’s weapon." He was, however, particularly fond of the epee. An instructor from the Italian school, he had his students use epees equipped with Italian grips and points d’arret, despite the prevalence of orthopedic grips and the fact that the electric epee had begun making occasional appearances at Gulf Coast Division competitions.
Wieder wanted his students to treat fencing weapons as though they were sharp, as though they were swords. Some descriptions of his style seem extremely combative, but always employing technique and finesse. As one of his later students would recall, "Mr. Wieder was 5'4" tall, and he would stand with his front foot between yours and execute perfect disengages." The same student recalled his maestro’s attitudes toward the basics of fencing, remembering a lesson drummed into the students as, "He who parries not, dies."
If Wieder’s attitudes seem out of touch with the fact that fencing had become purely a competitive sport or recreational pastime, it should not be surprising. One of Wieder’s last pupils, from the late 1970s, would later relate, "He learned to fence in the late 1920s, from an Italian gentleman who had been the fencing instructor at Annapolis in the late 19th century. He received his Master's license in Europe in the 1930s."
"My master learned in the 1920s from a master who learned in the 1880s, so I am only three generations away from real sword fights. In fact, my master fought a duel with live steel in the 1940s (I understand it was fought to first blood, with another master over a point of technique. Mr. Wieder won.) I was never allowed to forget that I was learning the sport form of a martial art, not a pure sport. Unfortunately, this is an attitude rarely found in the contemporary salle d’armes."
Born on June 27, 1907, Wieder had, in his youth, been part of an unusual fencing event. In the late 1930s, as east-west tensions mounted and the world neared the Second World War, the Japanese community in Panama brought in a Japanese kendo master and an American fencing master to face off against each other. Wieder was that American. It was fencing epee versus bamboo shinai. The kendo master raised his blade three times to begin his pass ... and three times Wieder lunged, striking the kendo master’s kote (right mitten). Wieder remained untouched. That ended the bout. Years later, Bob Lyle heard the story straight from the combatant, "He told me the story in his Lufkin, Texas, living room and I saw the yellowed newspaper clipping."
Here's more: WRU Fencing 1949/50 Season Record. Head Coach: Russell K. Wieder Season Standings (win/loss/tied): Information unknown from consulted sources ... www.case.edu/its/archives/Seasons/wfenc1949.htm
And his military records: aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&rid=5477511
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Jun 25, 2008 8:19:15 GMT -6
Post by S Simpson on Jun 25, 2008 8:19:15 GMT -6
Oh, Prue, I'm really surprised they don't teach A&M history there... "Russell K. Weider, was an internationally accredited fencing master and coach of fencing, wrestling and combative sports at Texas A&M University." Hence, the Weider Memorial at A&M...y'all do still have that one? (Apparently LongBlade beat me to the punch. Still, mine is more concise & to the "point")
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Jun 25, 2008 8:30:39 GMT -6
Post by schlager7 on Jun 25, 2008 8:30:39 GMT -6
Hence, the Weider Memorial at A&M...y'all do still have that one? Actually, it seems they do not. I think the last Wieder Memorial was in the late 1990s (which tells me that they did not hold it for too many years since he died in 1992, almost right at four months after Claude Caux passed away). Wayne Hughes, who teaches fencing at Anchorage Fencing Club in Alaska is a former Wieder student at Stephen F. Austin in Nacogdoches, as is Robert Lyle who was once very active in historical fencing in the Dallas area. Of Wieder's students at A&M, Bryn Ralph now coaches fencing in Tyler, Texas (UT-Tyler & John Tyler HS). Wieder's best-known pupil from his A&M days is unquestionably Joe Elliott, a former National Epee Champion (Wieder's favorite weapon) and still active. He can be found at NAC, Nationals and veteran events. I had the pleasure of having my head handed to me by him at the Fete de Lune one year... and that was just during our warm-up. [Since we are walking more than a couple of decades down Memory Lane, I am re-routing this thread to the War Stories board, where we talk local fencing history...]
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nemo
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Posts: 729
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Jun 25, 2008 8:37:17 GMT -6
Post by nemo on Jun 25, 2008 8:37:17 GMT -6
I see. Ancient history. (Man, you guys are old.)
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Jun 25, 2008 8:39:27 GMT -6
Post by Aldo N on Jun 25, 2008 8:39:27 GMT -6
I see. Ancient history. (Man, you guys are old.) Hush, junior, or you will have to sit at the little kids table.
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Jun 25, 2008 22:49:03 GMT -6
Post by LongBlade on Jun 25, 2008 22:49:03 GMT -6
I see. Ancient history. (Man, you guys are old.) You should live so long, Nemo.
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Jun 26, 2008 0:08:27 GMT -6
Post by Prudence on Jun 26, 2008 0:08:27 GMT -6
It was news to me. Besides, it's not like we sit people down and give them the entire history of our club. We meet people during mask-fills before Aggie football games who donate money to us and mention which team they were on and what year(s). You have to understand that after a few years students and coaches (for the most part) are forgotten. C'est la vie.
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Jun 26, 2008 6:44:32 GMT -6
Post by fox on Jun 26, 2008 6:44:32 GMT -6
You have to understand that after a few years students and coaches (for the most part) are forgotten. C'est la vie. Well, it would seem that at least one person would diasagree... and has actually done something about it. I refer of course to campechesteel.2itb.com/
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Jun 26, 2008 8:34:38 GMT -6
Post by schlager7 on Jun 26, 2008 8:34:38 GMT -6
In an unrelated thread, DavidSierra wrote:
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theluz
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Jun 26, 2008 9:20:50 GMT -6
Post by theluz on Jun 26, 2008 9:20:50 GMT -6
I see. Ancient history. (Man, you guys are old.) whipper snappers. This guy is AFTER my time. I must be really old.
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Jun 26, 2008 17:30:07 GMT -6
Post by Aldo N on Jun 26, 2008 17:30:07 GMT -6
Gotcha beat.
I wasn't in Texas, but I remember the TEXAS DIVISION (which actually included New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana... effectively larger than the SW Section of today!)
Of course, there was no SW Section then. I want to think there were only about three sections (Pacific Coast, MidWest and something that we had in the Mid-Atlantic)
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Jun 27, 2008 22:01:57 GMT -6
Post by LongBlade on Jun 27, 2008 22:01:57 GMT -6
I see. Ancient history. (Man, you guys are old.) whipper snappers. This guy is AFTER my time. I must be really old. AFTER your time, Luz? Hardly!Russell Wieder was born in 1907, and entered the military in 1942 with an official reference to his prior civilian life as being a sports coach.
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theluz
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Jun 30, 2008 13:47:56 GMT -6
Post by theluz on Jun 30, 2008 13:47:56 GMT -6
whipper snappers. This guy is AFTER my time. I must be really old. AFTER your time, Luz? Hardly!Russell Wieder was born in 1907, and entered the military in 1942 with an official reference to his prior civilian life as being a sports coach. thanks, that makes me feel much better. ;D
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