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Post by schlager7 on Jan 8, 2011 8:27:37 GMT -6
John, It is absolutely not true that you can have a tournament without any issues. Even planning ahead, there were many weekends the last two years that the weekend was "reserved" and not used. You can look at historical discussions on this on this website. Often we would find out it was not being used too late to reserve it as a USFA tournament. Just having the ability to host one tournament a month around the other tournaments would allow beginners to be brought into the USFA and give them incentive to join because there would be more than one event for their money. You bring up one of my biggest irritants. Clubs get tournament dates, even protected weekends, then for one reason or another fail to hold a tournament. I don't blame them for this. Any number of issues can torpedo a tournament. Common decency and responsibility, however, should move them to announce to both the division and all the other clubs that the date is now available. They should not only do this, but do so at the earliest convenience. I've seen far too many of those red, line-through "Event Cancelled" flags go up on FRED the same week that the tournament was to be held. I'll make this a promise, however. I check this forum at least daily. If anyone has to cancel their tournament and they post it here I will personally email contacts at every club in the Gulf Coast Division that same day. (It's not like it's difficult what with emails.) I do think the requirement of 6 weeks advance notice on a new, previously unscheduled tournament is a bit long. All the clubs have email contacts for every other club in the division (or can have them easily). I would think 4 weeks, essentially a month is plenty of advanced notice. ( I personally could go two or three, but four seemed less... controversial).
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Post by fox on Jan 8, 2011 8:41:03 GMT -6
I do think the requirement of 6 weeks advance notice on a new, previously unscheduled tournament is a bit long. All the clubs have email contacts for every other club in the division (or can have them easily). I would think 4 weeks, essentially a month is plenty of advanced notice. ( I personally could go two or three, but four seemed less... controversial). I belong to many organizations. That requirement sounds like a remnant of the pre-internet era when all notices moved by snail mail. It allowed time for mailings to be created, sent out and time for incorrect address issues to become known, possibly even corrected. Such is not the case. Internet postings, emails, text messaging via cell phone allow for near instantaneous information transferral. I've personally gotten local fencing results minutes after the gold medal bouts via texts, Twitter and Facebook. I grant that there are a few folks who do not have access to the worldwide web or modern telecommunications, but they are fewer with each passing year.
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Post by schlager7 on Jan 16, 2011 13:22:13 GMT -6
I've been updating my map of where folks can fence in the Gulf Coast Division. Where is Katy Blades meeting these days? MAP
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Post by katyblades on Jan 16, 2011 19:35:47 GMT -6
Katy Blades located insides Fast Twitch Sports 24022 Cinco Village Center Blvd. Katy, TX 77494
It looks like there is a new thread about sanctioned tournaments, but remember that the growth and success of fencing is tied to this.
I see many people comment on this thread, but most without personal identification. If you comment on this, please give your personal perspectives. Here are mine:
Fencer - both locally and nationally (although my broken foot has limited me recently, I probably should have stopped before DEs at the Call to Arms and limited the damage).
Coach - Just look at the results of what I do with whom I start with.
Parent - Although it is hard to keep a young person's mind on fencing when your competitions are so limited compared to alternatives. He was 20th in the country last summer with about 8 practices in the 8 months prior to the event.
Club Owner/Manager - I have actually done this in two completely different eras with different sets of rules in the GCD with the Bayou City Blades 85' - 90' and Katy Blades.
USFA Division Chairman - Took over the division with 2 sets of working equipment in the entire division. The Division ran all tournaments during that era, and we had to beg people for the ability to run tournaments. The GCD hosted the most successful local event besides the Olympics in North America in 1986, and I was introduced some of the Olympic honchos during that time. We had very good growth but limited resources during that time, and to host the Van Buskirk we asked for and received help from New Orleans, Dallas and San Marcos. This gave us the ability to host 10 strips.
USFA Section Chairman - The only function for the Section Chairman was the Sectionals, but Oscar and I expanded this role and we worked on growing the sport through competitions. It worked.
Local Businessperson - I am also simultaneously running the marketing division in another business that is growing by over 100% each of the last three years.
It would be interesting to compare perspectives and their personal interest and involvement in the sport. Do these strong opinions come only from yourself, or do you get in contact with a large enough database to have a statistically significant result? I know the number of fencers that come to me and parents that come to me even when I fence in competitions, but many of them do not post here. I could provide a statistically valid result just from my direct contacts, and I am certain what that result would be.
Would the people who run fencing care enough about it to make changes?
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Jan 16, 2011 21:57:12 GMT -6
USFA Division Chairman - Took over the division with 2 sets of working equipment in the entire division. So why, after all this time (you were chair in what, the 1980s?), does the division only have the two Favero FA-05s that I have already heard were purchased just before Mauro bowed out as division chair? What happened to the two strips you had? I've also heard over the years that the the division had some copper strips. What happeneded to those? I saw one at a Van Buskirk back around 2002 or 2003, but not since. Where did this gear go?
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jan 17, 2011 9:20:20 GMT -6
The (old) division equipment was stolen out of the back of Jerry Dunaway's car circa 1996/7.
Dan
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Post by katyblades on Jan 17, 2011 20:30:50 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]"So why, after all this time (you were chair in what, the 1980s?), does the division only have the two Favero FA-05s that I have already heard were purchased just before Mauro bowed out as division chair?
What happened to the two strips you had?
I've also heard over the years that the the division had some copper strips. What happened to those? I saw one at a Van Buskirk back around 2002 or 2003, but not since. Where did this gear go?"[/glow] Nemo - I will provide the best explanation I can, and you did not read the entire email. We started with two strips, and plenty of old parts and pieces. In the 1986 Olympic Festival, Joe Byrnes and I fixed or combined parts where we had 10 strips by the time he left. As a division, we (mostly I but I had no disagreement from members), chose to leave these valuable assets at the clubs in the area. Texas A&M, U of H, Rice, Bayou City Blades, Spindletop Cavaliers, Victoria Fencing Club, YMCA fencers and Steve Farid's group all got use of the strips to better promote fencing.
When I could not walk and did not fence any more in 1993 we had these 10 strips, but no metal strips. At that time SW Texas had a metal strip, and US Modern Pentathlon had a number of metal strips. The GCD did not have any. Fencing clubs pretty much fell apart as I understand because the USFA still gave out my number as contact until I helped Mauro when he came to town.
When Mauro asked me to become an officer after I came back in 2001, we immediately realized that there were no division strips. We bought the Favero boxes withe timers and the reels. I admit the floor cables s*cked. We caught A lot of crap from many of these gentle contributors for that decision. That was the GCDs first foray in equipment since 2000. I remember picking up metal strips in Austin and bringing them to Nancy Anderson because we were using them for divisionals in 1982. When I was the LOC for the Sectional championships in 1983 at A&M we fenced on the gym floor.
I remember at the first Call to Arms Mauro and I helped host I saw boxes of this old equipment there. I know there was some at A&M because I fenced up there for the club in 2001, and I think there were two strips there. I would be that there is some in a box at Rice. The equipment was old in 1986, and would be very old now. You could probably look in closets at these locations and find old Uhlman reels, boxes, Leon Paul battery boxes, Leon Paul reels, etc. I don't think these were stolen, just lost and discarded.
I personally bought a copper strip after the summer nationals in Sacramento. I discarded it. It was heavy and old, but that was my personal money and the GCD officers did not want to buy the available strips for $150 each. Those are the only metal strips besides Louise's that I am aware of.
Mauro and I bought these strips well before he no longer was chairman. It was one of the first things we did, because how could a club hold a tournament unless we had equipment to loan? He probably got tired of fighting the same argument we are facing today. His vision was for a tournament every weekend for a city our size.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jan 17, 2011 23:46:31 GMT -6
I believe the Rice University Fencing Club had a copper strip that spent several years in the Aggies' armory as no one from Rice was willing to drive up to get it back. Not sure what's become of it as it's not with the rest of the club's stuff at Rice. I should probably look into that before the SYC in April.... Heck, ideally before the Van Buskirk this weekend.
As for most the old equipment, the Aggies had 2 division strips when I got to Texas in 1995, that were eventually turned back over to the division. Jerry told me the rest was stolen out of his car when I tried to do an inventory during my brief period as a division officer.
Dan
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Post by Aldo N on Jan 18, 2011 19:04:59 GMT -6
If you find one of those old copper strips you could probably fund a Van Buskirk with the scrap value!
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jan 19, 2011 1:00:39 GMT -6
Fun fact of the day:
I saw Eric Dieckert put it over his shoulder and run up 4 flights of stairs in the Read Building on the A&M campus.
Dan
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Jan 19, 2011 10:14:07 GMT -6
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Post by katyblades on Jan 20, 2011 21:25:32 GMT -6
I did not know that the National Board of Directors had already implemented a limited version of my proposal. Since the USFA owns all tournaments, they should implement this for all tournaments. This is a response from the USFA to a local parent on why they have not received their rating from a local ROC. This is a pretty good way of implementing this program, and if the market will decide it will work well. [glow=red,2,300]All regional tournaments are required to submit a program service fee (passed by the Board of Directors in September 2008) to the National Office, along with tournament results. Until the program service fee is paid, classification changes, qualification and/or points (youth only) are not updated. To my knowledge, as of the writing of this email, the tournament organizers of the Alice B have not submitted the fee. We have made multiple attempts to contact them regarding the status of the fee being paid. -- Thank you for your continued support of our sport. Tanya _____________________________ Tanya Brown | Competition Manager | USA Fencing | 1 Olympic Plaza | Colorado Springs, CO 80909 | Direct: 719.304.1487 | Fax: 719.325.8998 | t.brown@usfencing.org | www.usfencing.org | Monday: Office; Tuesday-Friday: Telecommute[/glow]
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Jan 21, 2011 9:35:30 GMT -6
Are you saying you want each tournament to kick a portion back to the USFA in return for allowing letter classifications to be issued?
Interesting, but I am not sure I understand which of the issues we have discussed in this thread it addresses.
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Post by katyblades on Jan 21, 2011 23:47:55 GMT -6
To answer Nemo, the sanctioning body is actually the USFA national office and not the local division. It still is the USFA national office, because when a classification is earned it is not recognized until the national office has it.
The USFA could just let the current division policies stand, but allow for clubs that want to hold their own tournaments outside the local division to provide a head tax to the national office. The local fencers are the best source of sanctioning, because they will report or discuss irregular activities.
The USFA could also use the tournaments as an additional revenue generator. This probably would require transition years, but just by allowing it it would increase the tournaments and participants. I did a quick analysis earlier that I know is conservative. How long would it take to be out of debt with a $1MM annual revenue stream.
The USFA could encourage local clubs to hold tournaments by offering discounts based on the number of tournaments with fees are held. A club could eventually earn "free" membership and insurance because they held 10 tournaments averaging 50 people at $5 an event. I does not cost the club anything, because this comes from the users pocket.
I should add that tournaments were ran like this in the early 80s. The cost for a tournament was $5 or $7 dollars.
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