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Post by schlager7 on Apr 21, 2008 23:23:11 GMT -6
Not that I do not appreciate a good threadjack...
I do think that the evidence gives lie to the claim the division is too restrictive on tournaments. If anything we have had whole weekends crying for tournaments that no one claimed.
What would it have taken?
...to actually look ahead on the calendar two months into the future and find a date no one else claimed then asked the EC to let you have such an event? With that kind of pro-active stance the publicity could be out (AskFRED, the Div Calendar,..THIS FORUM) the required 6 weeks before the first day of fencing.
Granted, this does require clubs take the responsibility to seek out opportunities for themselves, work on their organizational skill sets and not wait until the deadlines have passed to act.
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kb
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Post by kb on Apr 22, 2008 5:58:44 GMT -6
They opted not to be associated with the USFA this fencing year. Matt Delevoryas Secretary Gulf Coast Texas Division Well, that says it all. If they aren't associated with the USFA, then it won't be a USFA tournament and should have been noted as such on FRED. Smacks of false advertising to me. I "emailed the tournament organizers" a few days ago regarding the sanctioning status and have yet to hear anything back. Like JEC, I hope the people driving in from really far away, as opposed to those that are arising at pre-dawn hours to get there, know this and realize any ratings "earned" won't be awarded. Edit: I just counted- 25 of the pre-registered 33 Open Epee participants are coming in from out of town, many from over 3 hours away. Sorry John for the return to the threadjack-mebbe move all this to "Tournaments"
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Post by schlager7 on Apr 22, 2008 6:57:52 GMT -6
Sorry John for the return to the threadjack-mebbe move all this to "Tournaments" Actually, I will have to wait about a year... when proboards v5.0 gets loaded to be able to actually separate specific posts within a thread and move them to other threads. In the meantime, I look upon the threadjack part as a public service announcement.
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Apr 22, 2008 8:54:37 GMT -6
Okay, I just want to make certain I have this right. Now I don't care about the half-weekends/Sunday only stuff. I keep hearing people say there are not enough dates available. Looking at schlager7's post, it looks like the following weekends last fall were 100% available... 15-16 September 22-23 September 6-7 October 10-11 November This spring we had 12-13 January 19-20 January 26-27 January 16-17 February (Yeah, I know, JOs) 22-23 March (Okay, Easter) This is nuts! Oh, and what the *%^$#*@#$^% happened to the Van Buskirk...AGAIN? ? If the host club/LOC couldn't hold it for whatever reason, couldn't the DIVISION hold it. When I was a kid every adult fencer talked about the Van Buskirk and the Pouj. For that matter, could the clubs with a lock on a date please give a holler if they have to cancel. It is just possible someone else might hold some other tournament for us. Sorry for the rant, but I'm an adult and in the real world not all of us have every weekend off. It hurts to have a free weekend and no place to play. And people wonder why folks drop out of fencing...
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Post by MTD on Apr 22, 2008 15:23:38 GMT -6
... Looking at schlager7's post, it looks like the following weekends last fall were 100% available... ... This spring we had 12-13 January 19-20 January 26-27 January 16-17 February (Yeah, I know, JOs) 22-23 March (Okay, Easter) ... If the host club/LOC couldn't hold it for whatever reason, couldn't the DIVISION hold it. When I was a kid every adult fencer talked about the Van Buskirk and the Pouj. ... There's an extenuating circumstance relating to January 12-13. The (Executive Committee, pretending to be, and filling in due to the default of the) Division Tournament Committee ("TC") declared that weekend to be a blackout weekend because the best information available at the time was that the SSCC in the North Texas Division would be held then. In the meantime, the TC never made any declaration that the different date when that SSCC tournament actually appeared was a blackout weekend (the counterscheduled tournament defaulted on getting itself organized, so no actual issue arose), and never made any declaration that the original weekend was no longer a blackout weekend, hence legal for possible calendar revisions. I suspect, though, that if there had actually been interest expressed in utilizing that weekend, the TC would have been more likely to get around to declaring it no longer off limits. March 22-23 actually was allocated, or rather March 22 was allocated -- to Katy Blades at its request. However, Katy Blades did not organize a tournament. But the general thesis, that there are plenty of dates nobody asked to have, is quite true, and the other thesis appearing in this thread, that clubs way too frequently default on untilizing their allocated dates (and certainly have NOT given the six weeks notice of relinquishment which the Bylaws asks them to give!), is equally true. Matt Delevoryas Secretary Gulf Coast Texas Division Now, as to the Van Buskirk, you're not the first one to think that it would be appropriate for the Division to arrange for it to occur, given the state in recent times of the club with the best claim to be its host. Having myself been a key party in the last resurrection of the VB which actually was USFA-sanctioned, I see a certain attractiveness in a revived USFA-sanctioned VB which neither enriches the coffers of any particular club nor depends on the viability or legal status of any particular club. (The corresponding negative, though, is that with a Division-based VB there will not be members and friends of any particular club who, for reasons of club pride, would volunteer their involvement in a club-based VB.) Matt Delevoryas Rice graduate and private citizen
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Apr 22, 2008 17:13:30 GMT -6
Ah yes. The North Texas SSCC was a bit late in getting annouced this year... (The corresponding negative, though, is that with a Division-based VB there will not be members and friends of any particular club who, for reasons of club pride, would volunteer their involvement in a club-based VB.)
Matt Delevoryas Rice graduate and private citizen As opposed to the hordes of willing minions whose volunteer efforts made such a difference the last three years?
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Post by fox on Apr 23, 2008 6:50:02 GMT -6
Hmmm... I, too, have heard complaints that there were no tournament opportunities. Looks like not enough clubs took advantage of what was available.
What I was surprised by, however, was what looked like an awfully large number of cancelled tournaments... four so far, with two of them in the last month or so.
Is this normal for most years?
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nemo
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Post by nemo on Apr 23, 2008 8:27:57 GMT -6
19-20 April 2008 - YOUNG ELITES TOURNAMENT - CANCELED Young Elites? The Akhi Spencer-El group? Aren't they, like, nonexistent? Of course their tournament was a write-off! Why do they still have an upcoming tournament date?
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Post by Dan Gorman on Apr 23, 2008 20:36:57 GMT -6
The VanBuskirk is a Rice tournament. The last 2 years, Rice has not had a venue for the tournament due to work on their facilities. This is not grounds for anyone to hijack their tournament. Even if they never host it again, that's an unfortunate event, but it's their tounament.
On the topic of the Heavy Metal, I'm trying to track that down with the Aggies. I hope to update that later tonight. I'm pretty sure they paid USFA dues per a conversation I had a couple weeks ago. The USFA site is down though, so it's hard to check.
Dan
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Post by schlager7 on Apr 23, 2008 21:19:57 GMT -6
Since kb moved the Heavy Metal 2008 thread to the tournaments board and gave it a thread of its own, I made my comments there. As to the Van Buskirk, it actually originated (back when Harold Van Buskirk was still alive) as a tournament sponsored by the Gulf Coast Division, itself. Over time it found a home, appropriately enough, at Rice University. Personally, I would much prefer that a Rice University Fencing Club host the Van Buskirk. I would, however, also prefer that we, as a division, revivie it if it is beyond their capabilities. Not too many years ago after it died for two years the Rice Club reached out to friends in the local fencing community to help them revive it. The help was provided and the Van Buskirk was revived. It was then down for a couple more years with no request (or any other word that I could hear) from Rice, until the 2007 Van Buskirk. I will support 100% Rice's right to be the sponsor of the Van Buskirk against all other claimants, but not against the event's extinction. That would serve no purpose except to dispose of the event itself. If Rice wants it, I am happy to help. If they can't handle it, they need to give it to some group that can.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Apr 23, 2008 21:57:09 GMT -6
I've spoken with the A&M club president and checked the USFA website. Contrary to previous information, Texas A&M is a USFA member club. The club has spoken with Rachel El-Saleh regarding the Heavy Metal and is under the impression that as long as an official signs off that USFA rules are followed, this will be a USFA-sanctioned tournament. The club president should be sending Matt an e-mail tonight regarding that.
Thank you.
Dan
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Post by Aldo N on Apr 24, 2008 9:00:41 GMT -6
Even if they never host it again, that's an unfortunate event, but it's their tounament. I usually agree with you, Dan, but not this time. That argument serves no one. Better for Rice to run the event with help from others.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Apr 24, 2008 10:36:52 GMT -6
I'm not saying that tournaments shouldn't be held, I just think that if one tournament dies, you don't keep trying to bring it back. Move on and start a new one.
Dan
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Post by schlager7 on Apr 24, 2008 17:31:47 GMT -6
I uderstand where you are coming from, Dan. I just think Rice can keep the Van Buskirk if they will (in a timely manner) reach out and ask for help.
UH, UST and TAMU have fencing clubs with annual tournaments. I see no reason Rice cannot join their ranks.
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