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Post by schlager7 on Jul 26, 2008 11:05:45 GMT -6
It is my understanding that the annual meeting of Gulf Coast Division clubs to work out our schedule of tournaments for the 2008-2009 season will be held on the evening of Monday, 18 August 2008.
I have not heard word on a time yet. I am presuming it will be held at the Houston Athletic Fencing Center. (It has been for the last several years and I guess it is about as central to division clubs as any of the Houston sites.)
I figure it can't hurt for all of us to start working on our schedules so we can attend. Remember, you want someone to represent your club and you can get your tournament dates on the division calendar to ensure USFA sanction.
(Allowing the USFA still exists by then)
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Post by schlager7 on Jul 31, 2008 17:16:59 GMT -6
Slight adjustment, the Gulf Coast Division Tournament Planning Meeting will be Friday, August 15 at 6:30 PM at the Houston Athletic Fencing Center.
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Post by JEC on Jul 31, 2008 23:17:38 GMT -6
I am glad!!! This should allow the blessing of the Fete de Luna.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 1, 2008 6:42:51 GMT -6
No worries. Because Fete de Lune and Cougar Call to Arms are held so early in the season, the division EC met last week to bless both tournaments.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 13, 2008 18:02:23 GMT -6
From another thread... That is a great idea. More fencing tournaments and promoting fencing. It is amazing that the Plains Division can do this and the smaller Gulf Coast Division does not. The GCD does not even allow it, and is scared of competition for its events. Amazing. Smaller Gulf Coast Division? In truth, that's the sort of "mental typo" I'd expect of me, Augie! ;D Now, for my response. Au contraire! Since we meet in about 48 hours to organize our own Gulf Coast Division tournaments, let me give you a "scoop." The Clear Lake Fencing Club expects to use their "Spring Open" as their exclusive weekend. We normally try to do a fall "D & Under" or "E & Under." Would someone like to schedule a Div I event opposite Clear Lake's fall tournament? Two tournaments for scheduling effort of one! Additionally, in the fall, the Galveston Fencing Club hopes to make their Naomi Abbott Memorial their exclusive. In the spring they hope to hold their third all U-Only competition... Anyone want to get with us on that and hold a Div I or Div II opposite the Laffite Classic? Everyone else is playing it close to the vest. We are willing to extend our hands in partnership. Any takers? Nothing says we can't begin working together BEFORE we meet on Friday.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 13, 2008 22:37:50 GMT -6
Also, for the benefit of those clubs wanting to hold tournaments, I am reminded that of our usual 15-odd member clubs, over 50% are not yet USFA member clubs.
(A requirement to host a tournament).
I note further that some of our division's largest and most competitive clubs are among those that, early this morning, were not yet members of the USFA.
Don't blame this one on the division.
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Post by Aldo N on Aug 14, 2008 8:28:42 GMT -6
Everyone else is playing it close to the vest. We are willing to extend our hands in partnership. Any takers? Nothing says we can't begin working together BEFORE we meet on Friday. A decent and commendable gesture. I hope some clubs take advantage of it.
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Post by katyblades on Aug 14, 2008 12:39:03 GMT -6
I will have to get you in touch with my tournament reps. I think it is a fine idea, I just don't have the time to go to the meeting. I would be happy to hold a Div. I epee across from the Div. III or Us, and youth tournaments opposite the others.
I would also extend the same gesture to any participating groups.
FYI. I have about 5 - 7 high schools that will be USFA clubs by early season. I hope to have many teams in Junior Epee and Open Epee next year in Dallas. These clubs were all started by students at the schools. The first clubs that began already had the 15 member minimums. One high epee team consists of A, B, C and D with national points in the A and past national points in the other 3 in different age groups. That will expand our weekend coverage and could become a pain. Something will need to be done because the USOC rules are plain that they need consistency among all divisions and several lawyers have reviewed the policies and found this is an area that the USFA falls outside the boundaries. I have the pdf.
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Post by katyblades on Aug 15, 2008 16:28:39 GMT -6
I was not able to sign up for the USFA until today. The Simon properties could not get me the correct wording they wanted for the insurance since the acquisition.
I notice the USFA club sign up form had a list of members. Since at least one club in our division shows no former or current members of the USFA, that will be interesting signing up.
I did not have that problem.
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Post by DavidSierra on Aug 19, 2008 14:29:14 GMT -6
Augie...
Just a word of caution. Be careful that you don't end up creating a situation ala New Jersey. What you're doing sounds well and good, but there are growth problems ahead, that could become a situation like New Jersey.
Also, realize that the entire structure of fencing in the USA is about to under go major revisions and don't try to fight battles that aren't needing to be fought any more.
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Post by katyblades on Aug 19, 2008 14:51:18 GMT -6
David,
I did not go to the meeting. I sent several adults that have begun about 4 months ago, are computer familiar and research the nearby divisions. They wanted more tournaments. At one point Rachel told them to "shut up" (reportedly). I did not send them with any agenda, they wanted more tournaments and I said go and we will hold all they give.
The other representatives were parents of a youth that had the national office and Terry Harkey giving their blessings on more tournaments for youth. Again, they went to get more tournaments for youth. They told me the same thing about Rachel, but I don't know who she was speaking with when she told them to "shut up".
I am familiar with the need to change the sanctioning of tournaments. The USFA can't afford to have different rules across the country. Now that we are successful there will be even more spotlight on us, so documentation such as that could close down the sport.
I am hoping that the changes I was aware of come through. Until then, I can't stop people from wanting tournaments and I will direct more of my adults to participate in the process.
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Post by katyblades on Aug 19, 2008 14:53:18 GMT -6
David,
I have to ask the question.
When does having more tournaments and more USFA fencers become a problem?
200,000 more USFA fencers and there goes our deficit.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 19, 2008 19:35:51 GMT -6
Oboy. This is how problems get started.
I attended the meeting as a club representative. I can categorically state that Rachel El-Saleh did not tell anyone to shut up.
I arrived before Rachel. I left at the same time as she. I was sitting at the tables (two pushed together end-on) with Rachel to my left and the Katy Blades contingent to my right. I was, geographically, in the middle.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 19, 2008 19:59:39 GMT -6
The Gulf Coast Division works on a finite number of protocols in organizing tournament dates for a given season among the USFA member clubs.
No sanction given to tournaments (allowing letter classification changes) held opposite any SSCC; held opposite the SW Sectionals Qualifier; held opposite the 2 divisional qualifiers (for nationals and for JOs); or held opposite a NAC or SYC held within the borders of the Gulf Coast Division (NACs and SYCs elsewhere are no issue).
Additionally, each Gulf Coast Division fencing club that is a USFA member gets one weekend that is theirs exclusively (i.e. any Gulf Coast tournament held opposite another club's exclusive tournament weekend will not get sanctioned).
Now, there are lots of other weekends available. One club, for example, may want a date for, say, an all-epee event. Another club is then free to request the same weekend for all-foil.
To give a real-life example. The Clear Lake Fencing Club requested a weekend (other than its exclusive weekend) for a D & under event. Another club was then free to request the same weekend for a Div I tournament.
The Galveston Fencing Club has requested a Saturday in the spring (and had it granted) for a second tournament (after its exclusive weekend) for a 1-day only, U-only tournament. Again, another club could request the same day for Div I competitions, or simply request the next day (Sunday) for pretty much anything, since GFC only requested Saturday.
And that is how easy it is for a sanctioned tournament that allows changes in letter classifications.
It gets easier. If you want to hold a Youth tournament and none of your events have much chance of becoming a C1 (at least 15 fencers including 2 Cs, 2 Ds, and 2 Es or higher) then you can't give out letter classification changes anyway... division sanction or not.
Most clubs could comfortably hold youth events almost every weekend with very little chance of a C1, especially for Y-10 and Y-12.
In those cases, just hold the tournament and enjoy...
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Post by DavidSierra on Aug 19, 2008 21:04:20 GMT -6
David, I have to ask the question. When does having more tournaments and more USFA fencers become a problem? 200,000 more USFA fencers and there goes our deficit. Augie, When we don't have the resources to run them properly, and the kind of problems happen such that they quit the sport and go to something "better run." I personally would rather have 20,000 fencers who are around for 5+ years than 200,000 who are in the sport for a year and quit. *chuckle* now, I'm not so naive that I think these things are two opposite ends of the spectrum. But you asked for an example, and I gave it. Seriously, though, the biggest problems in growth of the sport isn't publicity, isn't lack of interest. Its trained coaches to teach and trained officials for tournaments. Tell me, when was the last time YOU tried to hire 12+ competent referees for a regional tournament? It AIN'T easy, I can assure you! On the coaching front, if I had three decently trained coaches I could have them set up in three clubs in six months in different parts of the Fort Worth side of the DFW Metroplex. Biggest problem >I< have in my own club is not enough time to devote to all my fencers!
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Post by fox on Aug 20, 2008 6:43:07 GMT -6
There's a club that wants/needs to hold a tournament once a month?
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Post by katyblades on Aug 20, 2008 8:05:39 GMT -6
John,
I don't know where you were. Jessica, Brad, and Bill have all said the same thing. It was apparently a big discussion on Saturday. You probably saw her call me from her cell phone and she told me that on the phone Friday night.
All the fencers will be able to ask her at tournaments. An open USFA policy is the best. She has no reason to make this up. She is just a fencer, fencer wife and fencer mom who was asking for more tournaments. Bill was there as an advocate for more youth tournaments.
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Post by katyblades on Aug 20, 2008 8:19:17 GMT -6
David,
Which is better,
Having fencers that quit because there are not enough tournaments or not recruiting fencers because we are scared of the numbers?
Instead of immediately shooting for 200,000, what if we had 500 USFA clubs focus on growing by 50 USFA members each, (Larger clubs could grow more). This would require the USFA to ask each club what their current fencing membership was and how to convert them to USFA members. That would put growth at 25,000. With 10% retainage that puts USFA membership in 10 years at 55,000 or so.
I would not have a problem hiring 12 competent referees. I have to turn volunteers away from my tournaments. If you have problems hiring referees you should want more tournaments locally that could serve as training for these future refs.
I do want to comment on the NJ issue. We have the same issue as NJ currently. The difference is that in NJ they have provided a separate outlet for their fencers in high schools because the USFA did not provide it. That is what has happened to SWIFA, it filled a need that the USFA would not fill. The same ideas and USFA management styles are in place currently in the Gulf Coast and Nevada divisions, plus several others.
Fox, I do have people that would like a tournament a month in their club. My tournaments would not get larger that 20 to 30 per event, but that is a healthy tournament. From a rating perspective, the potential is there for an A1/A2 every time in epee. These were the people that went to the meeting and "told me and others" that they were told to "shut up" at the meeting. I was not there, I just got called from people that were there at the meeting and told this. It does seem strange that all the reps from one club remember it the same way.
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nemo
Blademaster
mobilis in mobili
Posts: 729
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Post by nemo on Aug 20, 2008 8:34:39 GMT -6
Okay, so you have members who want a tournament a month.
They all have to offer classification changes?
All of them?
Most local/division-level youth events will not draw enough fencers and/or enough sufficiently ranked fencers to reach a C1. You've got a lot of (VERY) good epeeistes, but I question that even you can put together Y-12 C1s every month.
So why not hold a tournament every Sunday that is non-USFA? Just for fun and prizes. Winner gets some bling and everyone is happy.
I may be getting old, but I no longer believe to sole purpose of fencing in a tournament is a letter rank.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 20, 2008 8:44:45 GMT -6
One other issue is an "infrastructure" issue.
The division requires that someone, reasonably well versed in the rules and the safety issues of a tournament, be present at each sanctioned event... someone NOT from the host club (to avoid the usual accusations of favoritism).
If Katy Blades holds, for example, 8 USFA-sanctioned tournaments in a season, that is 8 times a rep from another club has to go to Katy to monitor the event (although you can also put them to work as a referee).
Now in a quid pro quo world, does that mean Katy Blades is willing to provide a rep to at least 4-5 tournaments from other clubs?
Seriously?
I say that because some clubs have been very good about offering such people to drive all over creation on their day off and other clubs are not so good about replying to that kind of email request.
I have held the job Rachel is holding. I know the joy of asking our division's clubs if they can send someone to serve as rep at another club's tournament.
The silence can be deafening.
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bill
Contributor
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Post by bill on Aug 21, 2008 14:08:07 GMT -6
My wife & I represented Katy Blades at the meeting in an effort to promote youth fencing--specifically girl's fencing in the establishment of a "Gulf Coast Girl's Fencing Association". Years ago, Rachel took my daughter, Morgan, under her wing--as she has done with every other girl fencer in the youth circuit--and has shown patience & understanding in every toun. we've ever attended . She cares about youth fencers--& it shows! My wife and I were totally ignorant of how tournaments dates are chosen, meeting protocol, etc. & we also had to delay the meeting several times as I called Augie with questions as to dates, classifications, etc.--so if Rachel told me to "shut up!", "Be quiet!", or even "Put a sock in it"--I probably deserved it.
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Post by schlager7 on Aug 21, 2008 17:20:18 GMT -6
Actually, bill, the closest I recall from Rachel was a pained, "One at a time!" aimed not only at your four, but two or three of the rest of us... (which, of course, explains the exclamation). I was, for my part, very pleased to have four people from the same club show up. The scheduling meeting is a bit bizarre to an outsider, but once you have been to one, the rest make sense... sort of Many hands make light work, as they say. Welcome to the show that never ends...
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Post by Aldo N on Aug 27, 2008 8:30:05 GMT -6
Kudos to whomever for including the local tournaments on the forum calendar.
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