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Post by fox on Jan 3, 2007 9:41:39 GMT -6
I establish point in line (foil) and move forward, continuously crossing my rear foot in front of my back. Do I have a point in line? Or am I making a preparation?
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Post by DavidSierra on Jan 3, 2007 10:02:29 GMT -6
Accepted cannon is that point in line is established irrespective of any footwork. You can advance, retreat and lunge with it. "Back in the day" of priority sabre (pause while all who remember *shudder*), it was not that uncommon for a PIL to hit with a crossing of the feet.
That being said, I'm trying to visualize this situation and see where I'd call it a PIL and not an attack with the point (noting that you said continuously, i.e. multiple, crossings of the feet). Maybe a situation where you were down by your warning line, and your opponent was down by his (at which point I'd call non-combativity, but that's another discussion entirely). Then you establish a PIL and begin moving towards him crossing the feet. Your opponent would have to be a complete and blithering idiot though, to just run forward and impale himself on that - there's plenty of distance to set up a proper beat!
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Post by schlager7 on Jan 3, 2007 11:34:48 GMT -6
I can see a point (no pun intended), where as one fencer (X) advances on another (Y), without actually making an attack or establishing priority, Y might establish a point in line.
If X retreats at this point (maybe they were surprised or don't deal with PIL that often), Y might maintain the PIL and "chase" X down with multiple cross-forwards.
Kinda lame, but I was trying to create a picture of how it might happen.
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Post by vraptor on Jan 3, 2007 13:35:17 GMT -6
I would call it preparation because (and I'm going to show my age here) ROW gets established with the "point threatening valid target". If you're 14 meters away and you extend your arm, you aren't threatening anything. When I was learning this stuff, the convention seemed to be that you didn't actually have PIL until you were within advance/lunge distance. If X and Y are at the en garde lines, normally considered to be advance/lunge distance and X extends, he has ROW due to PIL. Y must remove the point in order to establish his ROW.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jan 3, 2007 21:05:13 GMT -6
A point in line has to be established before the advance-lunge begins, so you're better off setting it up outside that distance. If you don't, don't expect to get that call a lot.
Dan
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Post by schlager7 on Jan 4, 2007 13:01:21 GMT -6
I wonder if this is the part that made him ask about "preparation."
Rule t.56: "(a) In order to judge the correctness of an attack the following points must be considered... ... 8. Continuous steps forward, with the legs crossing one another, constitute a preparation and on this preparation any simple attack has priority."
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Post by fox on Jan 4, 2007 14:01:48 GMT -6
Truth be told, yes. On the one have, continuously crossing forward should make it a preparation...
But a point in line is not, actually, an "attack." It is more a condition or situation that a would-be attacker must overcome.
Just curious about the mix.
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