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Post by schlager7 on Feb 8, 2006 10:22:29 GMT -6
A final motion on the Agenda for this month's USFA BoD meeting is:
4. Motion (Joseph S. Streb): duly authorized member of the Board Of Directors of the United States Fencing Association, Inc. ("USFA") and hereby moves for adoption of the following resolution regarding the minimum age for participation in USFA fencing competitions:
BE IT RESOLVED, that the rule regarding the minimum age requirement for participation in USFA fencing events shall be:
To compete in USFA nationally sanctioned Div. I, Div. II, Div. III, Junior, and Cadet fencing competitions or any qualifying competitions for said nationally sanctioned competitions, all fencers must be at least 13 years old on January 1 of the competitive season in question;
however, this rule shall not be construed to prevent fencers under the age of 13 from competing in divisionally sanctioned fencing competitions, unless otherwise restricted by the sanctioning division.
Rationale: The minimum age rule, as interpreted in a January 24, 2006 national publication, has as its underlying logic "an attempt to give young athletes appropriate competitive bouts as they grow." However, this is a determination best left to coaches and parents. Because in many areas of the country, it is not possible to provide any meaningful fencing competition without operating an "open" event, to deny any young fencer the opportunity to participate is to deny that fencer the right to improve through competitive fencing. The proposed revised rule leaves the decision regarding who is ready to fence in purely local "open" competitions to those best able to judge based upon specific facts and circumstances, but it leaves unaltered the rule with respect to national events and national qualifiers.
The Revised Motion is designed to clarify the existing rule regarding age limitations for national sanctioned fencing tournaments and qualifiers and create an exception for divisionally sanctioned fencing tournaments, not otherwise restricted.
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Post by fox on Feb 8, 2006 10:50:43 GMT -6
Is it really wise to have, effectively, two sets of rules like this.
We do it this way at the national level but you can do it this way at home?
I also worry that a well-intentioned but over-zealous coach or parent might push a very small child into something they are not ready for.
Parents are sometimes the best judge of what their child is ready for...
...but sometimes they are not.
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Post by LongBlade on Feb 8, 2006 10:56:33 GMT -6
Yes!!!
I know 12 year olds who are huge, and very athletic. We need to let them fence up to their abilities, and not just down to their age bracket!
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Post by DavidSierra on Feb 8, 2006 12:00:13 GMT -6
Sure, thats why a good modification of the rules should be to be on the Y14 points list instead of the Junior. We let kids on the Y14 points fence in Cadet events, which is a very clos to an "Open" event (even though the word Open should refer to classification, NOT AGE!) in size and maturity level of fencers. I do support being able to fence up to one's level of ability, definitely. But not a blanket lifting of the restriction, its too easy to mis-interpret.
For example, lets say the organziers of one event wanted to limit it to 13. Then another one didn't. This could lead to a lot of hard feelings and misunderstandings in a very short level of time. You know how many parents get when they get told that their little darling isn't good enough to fence in that event (which is how they would interpret it). Haveing a uniform policy across the USFA would aleviate these issues.
I remember at one of the early SSCC events, before we started enforcing the 13 year old age limit (because we didn't know about it), refereeing a bout between a big strong 17 year old boy at the peak of his training and development and a tiny, barely able to hold the foil 10 year old girl. And she just looked up at him with fear in her eyes and said, "Don't hurt me mister!" It was quite obvious from her behavior on strip and that of her parents that they were the one's pushing her into this event. Its not fair to her to have to fence someone like that, and its also not fair to HIM to put him that situation.
But a big strong 12 year old who has proved he can hang with the big boys (seen a Y14 level national competition lately? it will shock you), should definitely be allowed.
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Post by kd5mdk on Feb 8, 2006 13:43:30 GMT -6
I recall refereeing some little kids (Y-12 or 10, maybe?) sabre at SabreCave last year, and while kids come in all different sizes, I can't imagine lining up against kids that size on strip. I can't even be sure I have any moves I'd be willing to hit them with.
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Post by staciared2 on Feb 14, 2006 14:28:27 GMT -6
As a parent speaking......
I have a 12 year old who fences 15-17 year olds at every practice. She feels left out when everyone leaves to go to tournaments she can't compete in and annoyed there are so few tournaments she can compete in.
Also, oddly enough, when she fences Y-14 instead of Y-12 she is a far better fencer. I don't understand it but it is true. I wonder how she would do in an open?
So, I'm not a pushy parent but I have a kid who would love to fence in an open....even if she came in dead last.
Stacia
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Post by kd5mdk on Feb 14, 2006 16:13:26 GMT -6
Well, one of the obvious answers is to hold more Youth events. As I said above, depending on the child, I may be quite uncomfortable fencing someone that much smaller than me. Also, many tournaments are pretty much at their capacity for events now, so adding more to existing tournaments may not be practical.
The question of how many Youth tournaments to hold, when, etc is a trickier one and I think some sort of coordination should take place between clubs with substantial Youth membership to ensure the kids get a fair chance at tournaments.
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Post by staciared2 on Feb 15, 2006 7:25:43 GMT -6
I can certainly understand adults not wanting to fence 12 year olds and certainly not wanting to bog down tournaments to accomadate them but she does hold her own with Dina, Dillon, Shawn and Nathan LOL (yes, Daniel trounces her every time but she has at least started scoring a touch or two against him LOL). However, she is exhilerated after working very hard and getting trounced anyway LOL. Maybe she is just a glutton for punishment?
Holding more youth tournaments doesn't really help the 12 not quite 13 year old used to fencing older kids and not really ready to travel alot. I suppose there is no real good solution for them. They are in fencing purgatory LOL. Here's why:
Y-14 doesn't necessarily attract a large field because they can fence cadet, open, etc. so Y-14 doesn't hold alot of draw (I am speaking locally, not nationally). Her best placement was Y-14 in an RYC and she loved it but none of those kids fence local Y-14 events. Y-12 is full of 10 year olds who are fencing up so an older 12 year old is really sort of stuck for tournaments around here. Not that she is so amazing she beats everyone. Certainly not. One of the Skopiks gets her goat every single time LOL. Youth fencing just isn't as enjoyable for her. I really think her fencing will improve dramatically when she begins to fence tougher tournaments. I have already witnessed it. This certainly may be an exception and not the rule. The discussion just made me want to toss out the observation.
So, we could get better competition by travelling but we aren't really wanting to travel all over the country right now.
We are just waiting it out which is not a problem.
Stacia
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Post by JEC on Feb 15, 2006 7:34:21 GMT -6
Stacia, We were there not too long ago (my son is just 14). Open tournaments varie considerably across cities, divisions and sections. Particularly, in epee, where arm reach is of particular significance. There would be some adult fencers who "unfairly" might not push their advantage while fencing her. It is only 11 months to the time that she can fence. The USFA policy states that you must be 13 as of January 1 of that year to be able to fence open tournaments. I hope that you will be participating in the S-RYC tournaments later this year. Those should be competitive! Best, JEC
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Post by schlager7 on Feb 22, 2006 10:54:19 GMT -6
From Brad Baker's notes of the USFA BoD as posted on Fencing Net:
Motion 4 was discussed. From a review of previous meeting minutes it appears that the USFA rule, as promulgated (fencers under 13 cannot fence open competitions) was an item in a report, but never specifically brought as an action item. The sense at the time was clearly that it was intended to be put into force, but that this was not technically done. The EC has been asked to (fairly quickly) make a formal move on the topic, which will immediately take effect and therefore clarify the situation until such a time as the Board revisits it (this motion will be a second-hearing item in July, so effectively the EC action will govern for the remainder of this season before the Board rule (whatever it ends up being) goes into effect).
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Post by kd5mdk on Feb 22, 2006 16:33:18 GMT -6
I have to wonder what USFA meetings look like, when all these overlooked "rules" and errors keep going into effect.
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