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Post by fox on Jul 19, 2005 9:19:10 GMT -6
I've been fencing for a little while, but rarely competed and not always in this division. For me, USFA membership was just something I needed to pay for so I COULD fence when I decided there was a fun tournament.
Now I just fence in the clubs. I do remember Mauro being the Division chair and Andrey after him, and I want to think I recall Dan was chair before Mauro... Now Louise is chair. Very possibly Bill Trapani may be the next chair. So? My life will change, how?
Mauro was demonized by Louise and supported by Andrey and Augie at our division's first really big meeting (Katy Blades SSCC). Then Mauro was demonized by Andrey. Andrey was demonized by Louise and supported by Augie. Then Mauro and Louise pooled proxies at the last divisional election.
And I am supposed to care enough to vote for someone?
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Post by phincer on Jul 20, 2005 9:32:31 GMT -6
Fox-
Do you have kids that fence? Do you love fencing? Do you care if you get better at this sport? Do you want to see fencing grow into an acknowledged sport in the Houston area?
If you answered "no" to all of the above, then no, who would expect you to vote?
But if you answered "yes" to just one of those questions, you should vote!
Like it or not, the GCD is the governing body for fencing in our area.
Like it or not, fencing will not grow without new fencers (that includes kids AND adults!). That gives you new faces at your club to fence. At the very least, that is how it will affect you.
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Post by fox on Jul 20, 2005 11:24:52 GMT -6
No kids anymore, but I obviously still enjoy fencing.
It's just that mostly it looks like the clubs and coaches are what make the different in fencing, not who's in charge of the politics. We have more tournaments now. That seems good. I have an easier time getting notice of workshops and tournaments, but that is largely a function of the internet.
I've just grown tired of the rancor.
I just want to fence.
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Post by August Skopik on Jul 24, 2005 15:35:55 GMT -6
Dear Fox,
I also have part of my answer under the Houston Cup thread, so please read if you are interested. If you don't vote and the new by-laws are approved there is a strong possibility that you will have 1/2 or less chances to fence in an USFA tournament in your event this year. The CLFC hosts the Fete De Lune, and they will have one more tournament all season. They ran several tournaments last year. South Houston host divisionals, and only gets one more tournament. Westchester hosts JO qualifiers and gets one more tournament. The new by-laws need to be voted down without any changes.
I volunteered for the by-law committee and was told I could not participate, and I participated in letting my opinions known to the committee chair and group. If you vote for these by-laws you are voting for less tournaments in each event in this area under the USFA sanctions unless something else can be done.
I did support Mauro in the meeting, because Mauro was pushing for more tournaments and each club hosting more tournaments. He had me independently email out to each club to put their events on the schedule so that I would have a timestamp on email received, and he had no forwarning of when the email would occur. It did not matter because only Westchester, Spindletop and Salle Mauro even responded. Whatever you want to say or prove about Mauro, he really wanted fencing and tournaments to grow in Houston and that is why I supported him.
I supported Andrey because he wants the same thing. He actually worked to incorporate the idea of the Bay Cup from Alex Popovici to promote tournaments. He and Mauro disagreed, but I did not support one to the neglect of the other. I supported whomever was promoting fencing!! Mauro moved his tournaments so that people could support both tournaments on the same weekend last year, and we began working together on this.
If Louise would participate in a venture to promote and increase fencing, I would support her in that venture as long as it did not hurt another club in this area. I want all fencing clubs to benefit, not just one.
I now know from my travels to Sacramento that they have four different divisions within driving distance for tournaments in an area as small as our division. There are fewer fencing clubs in most of those divisions. We need to see how many tournaments are in those combined four divisions in the year and have just as many.
Like I said, we need six tournaments minimum for each age group and category in the Houston area this year. Otherwise, or sport will not grow to take advantage of the opportunity before it.
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Post by fox on Jul 25, 2005 9:56:25 GMT -6
I now know from my travels to Sacramento that they have four different divisions within driving distance for tournaments in an area as small as our division. There are fewer fencing clubs in most of those divisions. We need to see how many tournaments are in those combined four divisions in the year and have just as many. Or maybe it's time for the Gulf Coast Division to split in two?
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Post by phincer on Jul 26, 2005 6:22:05 GMT -6
Or maybe it's time for the Gulf Coast Division to split in two? Fox- as my momma used to say "I think you said a mouthful there". What a great idea! The TX Prairie Division.......
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Post by fox on Jul 26, 2005 9:17:01 GMT -6
If nothing else, it might separate the groups that are having difficulties with each other.
There already seems a natural affinity between north and west side organizations (Alliance, Katy Blades, Knights of Trapani, Westchester...). The proper diagonal or highway-following boundary might adequately separate a division containing those groups and one containing BCFA.
If I err, I apologize, but this DOES seem to be the heart of the strife. Again, if I am wrong, my apologies to all.
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Post by captain jon on Jul 26, 2005 20:25:48 GMT -6
Now that is a FANTASTIC idea!!! What about just a BCFA/SM Division? They could nit-pick and pissy-fit themselves to death, while the rest of us could go on about our lives fencing great RATED tournys whenever or wherever we wished. We could have a rule that their fencers could NOT attend our tournys (since they are discouraged to do so now) but we could of course go to theirs, because that is the reason we split--we WANT to fence all the tournys we can, and it's in our bylaws that we may do so.....
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jul 27, 2005 8:33:02 GMT -6
You know Jon, a fair number of Salle Mauro fencers went to the Alliance tournaments last year. Also, as August has pointed out, Mauro was happy to change the schedule of the tournaments so that fencers could compete in both tournaments in a weekend. And as far as the dates selected for the tournaments, anyone notice they were the weekend before NACs so that club fencers would have a chance to get competition experience in a familiar setting? Most educators are huge fans of doing that. Notice Katy Blades and Alliance both try to hold tournaments on that timeline.
Maybe it's time for the sniping to stop.
Dan
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Post by fox on Jul 27, 2005 13:22:58 GMT -6
Now that is a FANTASTIC idea!!! What about just a BCFA/SM Division? They could nit-pick and pissy-fit themselves to death, while the rest of us could go on about our lives fencing great RATED tournys whenever or wherever we wished. We could have a rule that their fencers could NOT attend our tournys (since they are discouraged to do so now) but we could of course go to theirs, because that is the reason we split--we WANT to fence all the tournys we can, and it's in our bylaws that we may do so..... sigh! I was so hoping someone would convince it was worth sticking it out. Maybe I can join the SCA... You know, I DID find this on the internet from a long time ago... "And we always had a party on Saturday night and sometimes Sunday night too. Wine flowed and beer flowed and there was lots and lots of fun. The tradition for the Houston fencers was that no matter how you felt the next day, you fenced. We were the hosts and we were expected to provide our bodies, as targets at least, for all three weapons. Our visitors deserved it. Also the Gulf Coast fencers were expected to be there the night before the event to lay down strips and set up. In addition, if we were eliminated, we were expected to stay and help judge or keep score, and be there to clean up the gym after the meet. We did it. We learned from it. We loved it."
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Post by captain jon on Jul 27, 2005 22:27:07 GMT -6
You know Jon, a fair number of Salle Mauro fencers went to the Alliance tournaments last year. I'm just curious, but how many tournys did SM hold last year? I only heard of one, on the same weekend as a Houston Cup tourny, and I can't spend 2 days away from my ladies(family) on a weekend. I went to the Cup event because I support the idea in general. I KNOW SM holds unannounced events, so club members can get ratings, and I know that if you attend one of those tournys, you won't see the results posted anywhere but on the club wall, if that. Maybe it's time for the sniping to stop. Dan I also Know that parents and coaches are "pointed" in directions AWAY from other club's tournaments, "in their fencer's best interests", when in reality its the club owners best interest not to have anyone impressed with another club's location or atmosphere. This is not sniping...this is showing everyone the truth. Deal with it.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Jul 28, 2005 0:16:00 GMT -6
You know this how? Most Salle Mauro fencers I know with ratings earned them at NACs, SSCCs, or about an equal number at tournaments held at either Alliance, Katy Blades, or Salle Mauro. A quick search of AskFred shows SM held 3 tournaments last Spring, 2 opens with age groups and one RYC. That matches my memory of the tournaments Mauro asked me to help out at. All the tournaments were advertised in advance, they all have results posted on AskFred.
As for your second "truth", I notice more Salle Mauro fencers at tournaments held at other clubs in the division than I notice fencers from the other clubs at Salle Mauro's.
Dan
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Post by Flamberge on Jul 28, 2005 0:16:01 GMT -6
You know Jon, a fair number of Salle Mauro fencers went to the Alliance tournaments last year. I'm just curious, but how many tournys did SM hold last year? I only heard of one, on the same weekend as a Houston Cup tourny..........I KNOW SM holds unannounced events, so club members can get ratings, and I know that if you attend one of those tournys, you won't see the results posted anywhere but on the club wall, if that. .......... I also Know that parents and coaches are "pointed" in directions AWAY from other club's tournaments, "in their fencer's best interests", when in reality its the club owners best interest not to have anyone impressed with another club's location or atmosphere. This is not sniping...this is showing everyone the truth. Deal with it. Since you asked, let's clarify the various points in a Q & A format. Q. How many tournaments did Salle Mauro have this past season? A. According to Askfred.net SM had 5 tournaments; 3 called Houston Challenge, 1 called youth championship, all overlapping the dates of the Houston Cup (2 against KB, 2 against Alliance). The fifth tournament was a RYC and was opposed only by a U senior tournament at South Houston High school (no overlap here really). Q. Were these tournaments unannounced? A. No, they were all announced in late September, after the Houston Cup organizers had already announced theirs. Must have been something magical with those dates. Q. What about ratings? A. SM awarded, according Askfred.net (not verified or confirmed by the USFA) a total of 12 renewals or ratings upgrades [1 B, 1 C, 5 D, 5 E]. You can check on Askfred.net to whom they were given, but there is no reason to imply that they were not earned properly. Q. What about the Houston Cup? A. 6 tournaments (one just teams) 23 renewals or upgrades [4 A, 1 B, 16 C, 2 D] Q. Did SM fencers come to the Houston Cup events? A. Yes, in growing numbers and later in the season when they realized it was a helpful and pleasant experience. As to your last statement, while no coaches from Salle Mauro ever showed up, parents did, and they all seemed to enjoy it as did the fencers.
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Post by staciared2 on Jul 28, 2005 7:13:04 GMT -6
I can say, from experience, the reason we left BCFA was because Louise told me,"My fencers will not fence at that tournament." (speaking of an Alliance tournament). My husband and I informed Louise that the last time we checked, we were paying her for services not the other way around. We went to the tournament. My daughter fenced and enjoyed it and we joined Alliance.
I have no knowledge of Salle Mauro but I can tell you that BCFA fencers and coaches are bullied into not attending Alliance events.
I don't bully easily or suffer it well. It is stupid on Louise's part. How are her fencers going to grow? I don't know. It is a shame too. My daughter really loved Delfina and Kamilla both. She learned alot from them about fencing and more. There is the part of me that always hopes, one day, they will leave Louise.
This is not a snipe at BCFA, just a true story in context with the discussion here.
Stacia
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Post by captain jon on Jul 28, 2005 20:21:18 GMT -6
A. According to Askfred.net SM had 5 tournaments; I am sorry and stand corrected. I guess I didn't check cause I didn't know anyone who went. The Last Tournament that I went to at SM (both div qualifiers!) I had to ask someone who stayed untill the end how I did. I think this was pre-Fred. The time before that, I NEVER found the results, and the SM website was non-updated for months afterwards. Of course and as usual I did badly anyway so it realy didn't matter, but I would have liked to KNOW. I think at both times I was working long hours and my wife was not happy with me being gone even more time "swordfighting", so when I was done with a tourny I left. Q. Were these tournaments unannounced? A. No, they were all announced in late September Here again, my apologies, but this was not the case when I was at BCFA. I would hear about an event (at SM) at best 3 DAYS before it was held...as stated before, I'm married, and to a planner to boot...I can't expect to go to a tourny that hasn't had the time budgeted for. Q. What about ratings? A. SM awarded, according Askfred.net.....there is no reason to imply that they were not earned properly. True. Again my bad. Props for SM and Askfred. Q. What about the Houston Cup? A. 6 tournaments (one just teams) 23 renewals or upgrades [4 A, 1 B, 16 C, 2 D] Fantastic! not me tho... Q. Did SM fencers come to the Houston Cup events? A. Yes, in growing numbers and later in the season when they realized it was a helpful and pleasant experience. I fence epee so I don't know about the foil events, but there were many missing SM epee fencers at most Houston Cup tournys. I suppose it could be coincedence or that they couldn't do 2 tournys in 1 weekend either (I know I can't) As to your last statement, while no coaches from Salle Mauro ever showed up, parents did, and they all seemed to enjoy it as did the fencers. This is the best. I'm not out to ailenate any other clubs; Id'e like to see us all work together towards getting enough rated tounaments this year so I can get my "B"!!!!(or just renew my "C"!)
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Post by captain jon on Jul 28, 2005 20:23:00 GMT -6
OK so that didn't go the way I thought it would...
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nemo
Blademaster
mobilis in mobili
Posts: 729
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Post by nemo on Jul 30, 2005 17:03:24 GMT -6
I confess I was lukewarm on the last division officers, but...
The same group who seem outraged at having the number of tournaments they can hold limited by these new by-laws appear to be the same ones who want to run out the very incumbents who allowed everyone to hold as many tournaments as they wanted in the first place.
These incumbents were so inept we asked the USFA to take charge. Now they have and will limit the tournaments.
Things were so bad we kept asking the USFA to step in. Now this is exactly the reason the USFA feels obliged to step in and fix* our division.
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Welcome to the United States Fencing Association.
Enjoy the ride.
*"fix" is meant euphemistacally, as in a synonym for spay or neuter.
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Post by captain jon on Jul 31, 2005 19:41:30 GMT -6
Sadly, aside from most of the larger Salle Coach/Owners (Hamsa again was a no-show), a handful of parents, and a few curious as well as concerned fencers like myself, NO ONE SHOWED UP! I hope Louise Has all of our best interests at heart (remember this is the business owner known to have told parents, coaches and adult fencers not to attend certain tournaments last year) because she showed up at the Div elections with enough proxies to out-vote everyone else combined Anyone else remember when another person held this large a monopoly? We have met the enemy, and they are...wellIdon'tknowandI'mreallybusyandgoshIsurehopesomebodydoessomethingaboutallthis... Where were the people who were going to make a difference? Where were the people who were so upset with the way things have been handled lately? Where were the people who were tired of all the unproductive and embarrassing backstabbing? Where were YOU?
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Post by staciared2 on Aug 2, 2005 8:34:21 GMT -6
I admit that I was unaware (until too late) youth fencers have no vote unless there is a family membership. We have now purchased our handy dandy family membership so that we have the ability to vote....next year.
I received a proxy vote form in the mail. Are you telling me that none of those were mailed back either? Good thing there was such a fuss over mailing out voting proxies so folks could mail them in. I thought it was a good idea and will use the mail in form next year depending on where the election is held.
I really hope more families get involved. I guess I will have the right to complain after the next elections......
Stacia
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Post by Flamberge on Aug 2, 2005 17:41:19 GMT -6
....We have now purchased our handy dandy family membership so that we have the ability to vote....next year. I received a proxy vote form in the mail. Are you telling me that none of those were mailed back either? Good thing there was such a fuss over mailing out voting proxies so folks could mail them in. I thought it was a good idea and will use the mail in form next year depending on where the election is held. I really hope more families get involved. I guess I will have the right to complain after the next elections...... Stacia Stacia it is a shame that you could not participate in our democratic process. Your points of view are always interesting and reflect the problems and questions of parents of young fencers who have to make sense of what's going on in the GCD jungle. It would be nice if you will actively participate in the discussions the few times we all get together trying to solve the problems caused by few hell bent individuals who want to prevail no matter how. While you have a nice "pony" or better a young "filly" in this race, you always present eloquently what a parent has to go through while indulging his/her child in this sport. I also hope that you registered in your family membership everyone in your household who is >18, since only these people can vote. Learn from Louise (a competitive member) who signs in her mother (family non competitive) and requests the same type of loyalty and support from everyone else in her club. As to the proxy you received in the mail, you could not use it since it was in the name of your daughter who cannot vote because of age. Next time we will make sure that this "confusion" does not occur so not to induce into temptation someone to manipulate the process.
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Post by staciared2 on Aug 3, 2005 16:59:41 GMT -6
Oh, Flamberge, you sweet talker LOL. Thanks for the so kind remarks. I appreciate it. You know we have done the "trial by fire" version of learning the parent end of fencing I look forward to many years of participation as I have a 3 year old with a promising saber career ;D By the way, can I get a bulk weapon discount if I have to purchase all THREE!!!! Ugh! How did you know I was really tempted to send in that ballot?!? I didn't, but it SURE was tempting. Stacia
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Post by fox on Aug 4, 2005 7:16:19 GMT -6
Your points of view are always interesting and reflect the problems and questions of parents of young fencers I agree. We need to hear more from the parents of young fencers on this forum.
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