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Post by schlager7 on Oct 30, 2008 18:34:18 GMT -6
As a relatively recent referee, I would like to toss out this question based on a video I am watching. It is from a foil semi-final DE at the 1997 Bobcat. The video is a bit dark so I am not 100% certain of what I am "seeing."
However, my question is to the description of the action by the referee. The referee is named Erik Dieckert. The bout is between Alex Farrell and James Lo, both names I am familiar with.
Here is one call:
"presentation" (right)
"beat attack" (left)
"then counter" (right)
I am not familiar with the term "presentation" in parsing foil actions.
there is one later that runs:
"presentation"
"parry-riposte, touch right"
Was presentation synonymous with attack?
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Post by Kevin on Oct 30, 2008 19:46:34 GMT -6
I bet he intends it to mean "point in line". It sort of rings a bell, but I don't fence much foil these days.
Kevin
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Post by kd5mdk on Oct 30, 2008 20:03:51 GMT -6
I've heard it used several times locally. I've never been instructed in it myself, but my impression is it means "You stuck your blade out but didn't attack or do anything else useful."
I think it's the sort of opposite of preparation, in that it's an ineffective extension rather than more withdrawn action.
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Post by Aldo N on Oct 30, 2008 20:31:38 GMT -6
I mostly heard it used in the 1980s. At that time I was fencing in the Carolinas and Georgia.
IIRC, it described what would be considered a non-action today, an advance with the weapon somewhat forward but not extending into an attack. Essentially, as I understood it, you "presented" the blade, but had not actually taken the attack.
There was confusion as to whether it was close enough to an attack or not to warrant a "parry" or if the opposing fencer's action was a "beat-attack."
Last time I heard it used was the very early 1990s. It does not surprise me it did not last very long. One either has the attack or one does not.
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Post by arclem on Oct 30, 2008 22:01:56 GMT -6
"Presentation" is a term typically used in coaching to describe a cue made by, as has been previously described, sticking the blade out without really doing anything. It is a term that has no real meaning in context of parsing right of way actions, although it could be considered synonymous with "preparation," inasmuch as it is essentially a form of feint formed with a partial extenson ending in a pause while waiting to try to draw a search from the opponent. So I think if you read it as "Into preparation from the left, the attack is from the right, and the counterattack is from the left." Anyone feel free to tell me I'm on crack about that ... regards aaron
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Post by schlager7 on Oct 31, 2008 6:59:03 GMT -6
I have also received two emails, one suggesting it is synonymous with a "point in line" and one with "preparation."
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Post by fox on Oct 31, 2008 7:43:04 GMT -6
My memory is hazy, but what I recall is closer to what arclem posted. I can recall coaches describing a given drill set up, "Fencer A presents his blade, Fencer B will... "
I don't recall hearing directors (1980s they directors) use the term.
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Post by wedge on Oct 31, 2008 8:39:19 GMT -6
Every once in a while I'll use it when someone pauses with their extension (never reaching point-in-line status). Its a good set-up for the counter riposte or a counter-time action but the problem is.. if the opponent strikes the blade the same time the presenter thinks HE controls the strike, and there is only ONE click of the blade, the presenter has lost the ROW to the more 'offensive' action of the opponent. ie. you can't parry a beat.
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Post by katyblades on Oct 31, 2008 18:29:54 GMT -6
For most coaches from the Western European schools the presentation was very similar to a preparation. You would present your blade for your opponent to do something they wanted to do and then take it away from them.
It was very much a foil first oriented move, because with proper point timings if you hit then it went off. A good fencer would figure out what there opponent would do, present that scenario and then take it away.
The highest I was ever able to do this was to the 5th intention, against a former Russian Junior National champion or finalist.
Think of preparation when you think of presentation.
Warning. I still do this in all three weapons. Peter Westbrook teaches this as a high level saber move. No one calls it, but I still get touches with it.
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