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Post by seguin on Nov 25, 2009 0:48:49 GMT -6
First, let me state categorically that I do NOT fence with Italian grips. That said, I DO read the rules book.
Certain orthopaedic grips are generally deemed illegal as they violate the following rule:
m.4.6 If the grip (or glove) includes any device or attachment or has a special shape (orthopaedic) which fixes the position of the hand on the grip, the grip must conform to the following conditions. (a) It must determine and fix one position only for the hand on the grip. (b) When the hand occupies this one position on the grip, the extremity of the thumb when completely extended must not be more than 2 cm from the inner surface of the guard.
My question is whether or not an Italian grip truly "fixes the position of the hand on the grip" or if it is somewhat more ephemeral, like the French grip. If so, it would be perfectly allowable to "post" with an Italian grip epee.
...now why you would WANT to, is beyond me, but I found the arguement intriguing, n'est-ce pas?
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Post by vraptor on Nov 25, 2009 14:03:25 GMT -6
Don't get me started on this. I DO fence Italian when I can get them to work right. That's another story. But you're right. Italians don't really fall under the letter of the rules. But, Italian-like grips have been around since the days of the rapier so it would seem sort of silly to ban them. Besides, the Italians would go ballistic for "their" grip to be outlaws when the "French" grip is allowed.
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Post by Aldo N on Nov 25, 2009 19:37:29 GMT -6
Ah, all the many discussion threads on so many fora regarding the Italian grip. Here we go again. OTOH, one could make a good case for treating the Italian grip as if it were a French as far as the rules are concerned. Although I would not, personally, suggest trying to post with an Italian epee.
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Post by schlager7 on Nov 26, 2009 10:51:27 GMT -6
I do, on occasion (club fencing, the odd veterans' event) fence with an electric Italian grip foil. Most younger fencers have never seen one. They invariably ask to hold it and use a staggering variety of ways to grasp it. I can clearly attest to the fact that the Italian grip does not "determine and fix one position only for the hand on the grip."
That said, at a high level event, I would not likely use it. The Italian grip was created for a manner of fencing foil that is rarely executed today. If I am fencing just for fun, the Italian grip is a lot of fun for me. It I am fencing to medal, expect to see me with a Belgian or Visconti.
This, of course is just my opinion, YMMV.
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Post by vraptor on Nov 26, 2009 14:43:49 GMT -6
I won't rant. I won't rant. I won't rant. I won't rant.
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nemo
Blademaster
mobilis in mobili
Posts: 729
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Post by nemo on Nov 26, 2009 16:02:05 GMT -6
I won't rant. I won't rant. I won't rant. I won't rant. Never stopped me.
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Post by Dan Gorman on Nov 26, 2009 20:04:43 GMT -6
The rule in question applies to orthopedic grips. The Italian and French grips aren't orthopedic grips, so there's no weirdness or conflict.
As for whether you should use one or how you want to hold it -- whatever makes you happy.
Dan
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