The Mystery of the Van Buskirk Cup

[schlager7]

We all are familiar with the Van Buskirk Memorial tournament. Some are even aware that it was primarily a sabre tournament with other events attached.

Here is something that maybe only a few knew, however. There was originally a special sabre trophy.

Roland Reed of the old Bellaire Fencing Club wrote to me the following:

[glow=red,2,300]The official, original Van Buskirk Sabre Trophy, [was] a large double handled silver cup… Usually the winners were allowed to keep it for a year and Division had their names engraved on it. They also got a ‘Keeper’ trophy.” [/glow]

I'm told that, if it were to be found, we'd find engraved upon it the names for the first 10-12 winners of the Van Buskirk sabre competition.

It seems ironic that it disappeared sometime around 1980, the year Harold Van Buskirk died.

[MJ WYSOCKI]

There is a trophy case in the student center on the Rice campus with a lot of older trophies etc. Could it be there?

MJ WYSOCKI

[MTD]

I'd be very surprised. That case collected things that "legitimate" athletes and athletic teams won, not rotating trophies won by individuals in an "illegitimate" sport like our beloved fencing. Further, that case was already old (and may not have had substantial changes to its contents since) when I arrived at Rice in 1975. The grail is believed to have vanished closer to when I left Rice.

Nonetheless, it's a worthy idea, and I'll check next time I'm passing the Rice Memorial Center.

[Michael LoParco]

Dare I venture into the obvious by suggesting that someone get the results from the Van Buskirk in the year of the events disappearance and contact the last know winner? No doubt it weighting down a box in someones storage or collecting dust on some shelf.

[schlager7]

Indeed, Michael, that would be the way I'd prefer to do it. Unfortunately, there is no ready list of past Van Buskirk winners going further back in time than the late 1990s.

As someone who has been doing some small snooping into the history of fencing in our little corner of the world, I can sadly testify to how little surviving documentation exists for events no further back than a decade ago.

Much of what I have for 1977-1983 is here:
campechesteel.2itb.com/photo3_6.html

I have nosed around a bit. Both Roland Reed and August Skopik have suggested that the last winner to possess it may have been one Clarence McGraw or McCraw. This would have been sometime around 1978-1981.

Augie thought he may have moved to Arizona shortly thereafter. Thinking that someone good enough to win a tightly contested prize might continue to fence I took the liberty of contacting the Chair of the Arizona Division of the USFA.

I received this today.
[glow=red,2,300]I would love to help in any way I can. I do not know of this man and have asked the Division officers here and they do not know of him as well.
I have sent a message to one of our older members to get back to me on this matter and as soon as I hear from her I will let you know.
I hope we are able to help you track this trophy down.
Good luck and stay in touch.

David Ribaudo
Chairman, Arizona Division, USFA
[/glow]

This is where I am at this point.

[schlager7]

As to new developments.

The man believed to be the last known winner of the Van Buskirk Cup now appears to reside in Denton, Texas. (I used to move around a lot, myself).

I found his name on some Google-located minutes of the local County Commissioners Court there.

August Skopik wrote me that he believes he can contact him.

With luck, as Michael LoParco has noted, it may just be keeping a mantle from flying into space or keeping some old papers or clothes warm in a box in an attic....

[delafequiana]

And you wonder why the USFA has near "nuclear missile silo" security on the trophies for Div 1? The men's foil trophy was made at Tiffany's before 1920 and it valued at over $100,000. The BC chair can hardly let it out of sight! (It's quite nerve-wracking.)

The Van B is probably valuable. I hope it hasn't been sold for scrap metal. I would love to see more traveling trophies like that, but unhappily, that is what happens more often than you would think.

[schlager7]

It really would be great to get it returned to the Van Buskirk. It is a part of our history and heritage.

It would be good to get it back...even if it has been neglected, become tarnished or damaged.

Then too, I happen to be on very good terms with a lovely local sabreuse who also happens to be a talented, professional silversmith...

If the gentleman in Denton still has it, I am hopeful things can be worked out.

[schlager7]

Drat! I received the following reply to my inquiries from Clarence McCraw:

[glow=red,2,300]First, let me start by saying that I do not have the Van Buskirk trophy. I gave it back to Roland Reed in 1984, the same year I left Houston for New Mexico. I would love to have kept the original trophy, as it meant so very much to me. I am one of the few people (maybe the only one) to have won it three times and I have the dubious honor of being the last person that Mr. Van Buskirk saw win it as he was in attendance at that tourney and he either died later that year or early the next before the next tourney. It was one of the high points of my fencing career. If I can be of any further help to you with anything about fencing in the Houston area, please let me know. [/glow]

Back to the hunt...

[schlager7]

I've been working on my local fencing history and came across the chapter for 1984, so I thought I'd revive my search and repost. Some reading this will also have received an email from me. Sorry for beating a dead horse, but sometimes your have stir things up every so often for a new lead.

I'd love to even find or take photos of it. Perhaps it can be re-created.

Oh, and if anyone also stumbles across a new lead on the Franks trophy, I'd love to track it down and take some photos of it, as well.

Below is an excerpt from the chapter on the year 1984 in Campeche Steel:

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In recent years, Clarence McCraw had dominated the sabre event at the Van Buskirk. Now, however, he was moving out of state and had to part with the prized Van Buskirk Cup. McCraw remembered, "I gave it back to Roland Reed in 1984, the same year I left Houston for New Mexico. I would love to have kept the original trophy, as it meant so very much to me. I am one of the few people (maybe the only one) to have won it three times and I have the dubious honor of being the last person that Mr. Van Buskirk saw win it as he was in attendance at that tourney and he either died later that year or early the next before the next tourney. It was one of the high points of my fencing career."

"I can't remember whether I won it in 83 or 84 or both. For a while, it seems that I was unbeatable, especially when it came to this tourney. I do remember having it for a couple of years, but, before I moved to New Mexico, Roland called me and asked me to return it. I didn't want to because all the nameplates on the trophy was full (with my name on the last two slots) and I thought they would have to buy a new trophy anyway. But at Roland's insistence, I did return the trophy to him so it could remain in the tourney as the tourney itself and Mr. Van Buskirk's memory is more important that any one fencer."

McCraw also recalled the Franks Memorial, but not as well. "I don't remember much about the Franks except for winning it. It was not nearly as big as the Van Buskirk. I do remember it was held in September. Once again, Roland Reed or Sonny would be your info source on this as I think the Bellaire Club (of which Roland ran) put on the tourney."

Some twenty years later, Oscar Barrera recalled the leading sabre fencers and tournaments of this era, "I spoke with Howard Williams, who used to be a pretty serious sabre fencer in the 70's and 80's. He, Paul Anderson and Clarence McGraw used to trade out 1st place in sabre in the Texas tourneys then. He recalls that his last Van Buskirk, which was about 10 years ago, Clarence won the Van Buskirk loving cup. He also seems to have a memory of the Franks trophy being a mounted sword. He has no memory of when he last saw it, though."

Whatever was done with the Van Buskirk Cup, it disappeared about this time. Its location remains unknown to this day.

[schlager7]

Just FWIW, I received this in my email from Michel Sebastiani:

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Dear John

I sure wish I could help you about the cup but as you recall I left Houston for Princeton in October 1982.

I did not even know where the cup was kept. Yes, I think Sonny would be the best info source. Perhaps contact Steven Fared also.

I had long talks with Mr. Van Buskirk who knew many old fencers from France. Clarence was in my club, he was a good friend of one of my strong saberist Tom Outwin , Houstonian, (now living about 40 miles from me in NJ) . I remember some of the names you mentioned: Paul Anderson, Oscar Barrera, and of course Roland. I have a vague memory of the Franks Memorial but I would need more info to better remember it

I hope you are well, best regardsl

Michel Sebastiani

[fox]

Not to be dense, but is there a special reason for trying to track down 20+ year old trophies?

No disrespect intended, just curious as to the attraction...

[DavidSierra]

Because its the VAN BUSKIRK tropy... enough said!!!

You'd have to be a sabre fencer to fully understand

[nemo]

All very fine, but what's schlager7's reason? He's a foil fencer IIRC.

[vraptor]

DUH! History. He's a historian.

Actually, he has an ulterior motive. Drinking from the cup grants immortality, instantly heals bruises caused by flicks, and gives you an unstoppable fleche. But at a price...

[schlager7]

I posted a parallel announcement on Fencing Net. I did get this response from a fencer who signs on there as dekko:

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I won that event a few times in the late 90s but do not recall a travelling trophy. If possible find Steve Lewis in Houston, if still there, should be. He will likely have info on it or know where to locate it. Scott Clark may have info on it's location. He used to live outside Abeliene(sp?) but may have moved to the Austin area, he threatened to for years. Howard is a good resource. Oscar will be your best bet for finding these guys. If you have contact with him now he will likely have there current contact info.

Also, check with the Rice fencing folks, many have been around for sometime and may recall if/where there is one. I do hope it can be found.

Talk about a name from the past, Clarence McGraw. I saw some video of him and he was blinding fast. Back when running was still legal in sabre...

[schlager7]

There have been some interesting additions to the Fencing Net thread. One who posts as Bill the Blade has made a couple of posts. The salient points are quoted below:
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Dwaine Blakeley, Nancy Sumpter, Ray French and maybe Kirby Rassenfoss were division officers in the Gulf Coast Division in 1984 - 1985, and the cup was not there then. I became chair in 1985 - 1986 and the cup never appeared again at least through 1993 when I quit for a while.

Steve Farid was and is a good friend to fencing, an excellent coach, and helped with the Van Buskirk by providing tshirts at cost and other things. He owns International Sporting Goods.

I saw the Texas Flash, Clarence McGraw, win the saber tournament when coach Van Buskirk was presenting the trophy and it was one of my first tournaments. I was more impressed with a foil finalist with one are named Al Snyder that finished 6th, (out of 50+), fencing in his 50th year of fencing. He started fencing in his early 20s or late teens at Stanford recruited from tennis.

Rice may have the trophy somewhere, but the relationship between Mauro and the Rice club is limited. The Rice club has recently been kicked off the campus to all non-Rice personnel. This is the club where Kelly Hurley walked in the walker while her sister laid on a blanket and her parents fenced.

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then a bit later he wrote:

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Mauro did not come to Houston until after the cup was missing. I am interested that Dekko won the event several times in the 90s. I have won an event at the Van Buskirk in three separate decades and the last two Van Buskirk epee events. I think the event is gone forever now.

The largest saber team event there was about 20+ 3 person teams. The largest individual tournament was 90+ foil and 60+ epee in the same weekend as the team, and that was 1989.

[nemo]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[DavidSierra]

nemo... hush.

[schlager7]

Frankly, I am encouraged. Looking back, Clarence McCraw wrote:

I gave it back to Roland Reed in 1984, the same year I left Houston for New Mexico.

Now Bill the Blade writes:

Dwaine Blakeley, Nancy Sumpter, Ray French and maybe Kirby Rassenfoss were division officers in the Gulf Coast Division in 1984 - 1985, and the cup was not there then. I became chair in 1985 - 1986 and the cup never appeared again at least through 1993 when I quit for a while.


I think we can pretty much set 1984 as the year it fell off the planet. Clarence McCraw said he gave it to Roland Reed in 1984, but Roland Reed had hoped I could find it (but he passed away only 3-4 months after letting me know the cup ever existed). It should be pretty easy to confirm that it was gone by the 1984-85 season since Dwaine is still in the area. I saw him last year at a Katy Blades tournament.

[fox]

I trust you are allowing that some of the information you're getting is wrong and/or that someone may be lying to you...

[schlager7]

Well, I've spent the last decade and a half in private security. I think I've been handed my share (and then some) of both simple errors and bald-faced lies.

I'm taking nothing at face value and, whatever hypothesis I develop, I am prepared to adjust it or trash it as new information dictates.

[Fred Sklar]

I fenced under Mr. Van at Rice from 1953 to 1956 si I can't shed any light on the trophy referred to but I can on two other things. The old trophy's in the Rice Athletic's Dept in Autrey Gym ha the 3 Southewest Conference championship trophys amongst others which I used to admire when I's go to a Rice Basketball game at the gym. Then a few years ago I noticed them missing and went to the athletic office desk to inquire. The gentleman said he had them in his office and was about to put them in storage and offered the 1956 one to me, which I was the captain of the Rice team that one it, so it now sits on the mantle in my house. As to the Franks memorial, in my day that was the first tournament of the year and was held in Texas City.

Fred Sklar

[DavidSierra]

Southwest Conference fencing tropies?!?!?!?!?!!?!

[schlager7]

You didn't know? A&M should have some, too. You want the years THEY won?